Census

[Gumby]

For those few people who liked to argue that Bastet would not affect the population on the main shard...
Since Bastet lanuched a couple of weeks ago, the main shard has lost around 100 players. I don't know that I've seen the population go below 800 in any previous tale (currently 797), but then again it wasn't something I was inclined to watch before Bastet. I bet "I'm leaving to play on Bastet" is not an option for the survey.
The game doesn't need a new shard every three months. It needs enough content to fill one shard from start to finish. People start leaving once the pace slows. Throw no new players on top of that, and we'll be luckly to have 500 "paid accounts" at the end.

[Rosethorn]

Actually, you've had about the same rate of new players joining before Bastet opened. Subscription numbers had gone down then back up, with some folks returning and others brand new signing up.

The other server has almost 400 paid accounts, so net, we're looking at about 300 people who have either returned or are brand new to the game. And I expect that number to continue to rise.

The # of people logged in at any given time of day has also not changed since the new server opened on the old one. I've been checking.

[Gumby]

Actually, you've had about the same rate of new players joining before Bastet opened. Subscription numbers had gone down then back up, with some folks returning and others brand new signing up.

The other server has almost 400 paid accounts, so net, we're looking at about 300 people who have either returned or are brand new to the game. And I expect that number to continue to rise.

The # of people logged in at any given time of day has also not changed since the new server opened on the old one. I've been checking.

If we have the same number joining, then we have a lot more leaving. Of course some returned, that's what happens at the beginning when there's actual content. I'd argue that some of those aren't new or returning though, instead they just have accounts on both servers. I know several people who have done that. I don't think anyone was saying that the net affect would not be more players. Ultimiately it doesn't matter, more money is more money. I don't fault teppy for trying to make money, that's what businesses are about.

I do take issue with the constant spin that is put on it. We lost 10% of our population in two weeks. That would seem to be a detriment to the main shard. I think having a net of more people spread over additional servers makes the game less enjoyable than having a lower net all on the same server. The game was already suffering from low population. Maybe over the long haul it'll mean more players for future shards, but right here, right now, it's hurting the main shard. My ultimate complaint is that just throwing out more shards doesn't fix the core problems with the game.

[Teao]

My ultimate complaint is that just throwing out more shards doesn't fix the core problems with the game.

Ah but it keeps egenesis from going bankrupt (in the short term) without Teppy actually having to do some work. You know so he can keep making showers and sweat lodges and stuff.

[Rosethorn]

One of the theories is that the core problem with the game is that it takes so long to run a telling. The shard DOES fix that and we're experimenting to see what else it does.

I'm not putting a spin on it. The same # of players are logging in on the main shard that were before we opened Bastet. That to me says a lot of the people who are unsubscribing weren't actively playing. A few people did move to the new shard (and of those, I know quite a few have moved back to the old shard because really, if you have passed all these tests already, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have to do the work again when you have an account that has it all), but the majority of folks stayed. Not only that, but they are playing actively, as they were before. The ACTIVE population on the main shard hasn't changed, even though we've seen a reduction in accounts there.

The active population on the new shard is sizeable as well. I'm hearing a lot of folks say they haven't played before (thanks to promotion we did with the launch of the new shard, we do have quite a few folks who have never played the game) AND we have a lot of players who haven't played since telling 2 or 3. Not even folks who quit T4 and came back for it and especially not many who moved from T4.

I agree that the main shard has problems. You need tests released, which Teppy has addressed in E! I know. He's programming a very complicated test, the first true music test in the game. It's delayed some things being released on main, but he's close to done and when it's done, you will have plenty of content on main. I realize it's a flaw that we have to wait for tests to be released, but it's also the charm that new tests get programmed each telling. Some end up being really complicated.

You want tests released more often on main, I completely understand that. That really has nothing to do with Bastet. The decrease in population can actually be more directly blamed on the slowness of test releases than anything and that's something we're hoping Bastet will figure out how to fix.

[Teao]

One of the theories is that the core problem with the game is that it takes so long to run a telling. The shard DOES fix that and we're experimenting to see what else it does.

No it doesn't take "so long". It's that teppy ignores the game for months on end cause he gets bored with it. He did this in T1. I didn't play T2. I played T3 with the promise of a player run telling then and he did the same ignoring again. At the start of T4 I said I wouldn't play until a whole telling occurred where Teppy didn't ignore the game for months on end. I was told how by people like Apophis how this telling would be different. Sadly they were wrong and I was right. And hence I won't be back in T5. When we heard Teppy was finally hitting bottom with money and was laying people off, I actually saw hope that maybe he'll actually learn his lesson and treat this like an actual job and treat us like actual customers. But nah, he pulls this hail mary to try and get some short term cash cause telling starts usually pull people in, always has. The lengths he'll goto to avoid doing work are amazing. But at least he's honest about it, he told everyone before he started the new shard that he would do no extra work for it. HA!

A few people did move to the new shard (and of those, I know quite a few have moved back to the old shard because really, if you have passed all these tests already, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have to do the work again when you have an account that has it all)

Seriously? wtf? you're making the same argument everyone makes when they hear about how tellings work and are like why would I play if everything gets destroyed?

I agree that the main shard has problems. You need tests released, which Teppy has addressed in E! I know. He's programming a very complicated test, the first true music test in the game. It's delayed some things being released on main, but he's close to done and when it's done, you will have plenty of content on main. I realize it's a flaw that we have to wait for tests to be released, but it's also the charm that new tests get programmed each telling. Some end up being really complicated.

You want tests released more often on main, I completely understand that. That really has nothing to do with Bastet. The decrease in population can actually be more directly blamed on the slowness of test releases than anything and that's something we're hoping Bastet will figure out how to fix.

Tests are just one type of content. How about the legal system that he has just made excuses for since the middle of T1? How many VOLUNTEER devs and events people has he chased away cause they try to do things to make him money, but he requires he approve every little thing BUT just ignores them so they can't get approval? (If he communicated with them regularly and gave feedback and approvals there wouldn't be anything wrong with wanting that approval). You say the music test is hard to code? How many hours a week does Teppy actually work on things atitd related? Looks like this telling he spent weeks organizing a local pittsburgh burning man and building a sweat lodge.

I'm a very verbal opponent to the new shard. You might ask "why do you care? you don't play the main shard." (or you might say you don't currently pay money so STFU) Why do I care? Cause if Teppy treated atitd like a real job and not a hobby it might actually be fun to play and the new shard is like giving a broke alcoholic another bottle of booze, it's not gonna fix anything long term but it will keep him from facing reality and turning things around.

[Tamutnefret]

I'm playing Bastet (and paying for 4 accounts between my wife and myself), so Rosethorn would probably see us as a "success" of the shard experiment.

She is wrong. We would have been back for T5 anyway, and now we will not be in T5 shard A. So there is no long-term gain here, just a one-shot few months of subscription cash before T4 ends. Teao is exactly right - this is a short-term "fix" for Teppy, in both the senses of an adjustment, and what an addict craves.

Many players who were otherwise waiting for T5 are in Bastet instead. I have a guild of 75 people, more than 20% the paying population of Bastet, and almost all of them are returning veterans from previous tales or actually from shard A. Nearly all of them planned to give T5 a try, so this experiment is just moving that new Tale surge earlier by a few months. It has already weakened T4A (despite what Rosethorn thinks) and will weaken T5A even more.

My presence on Bastet is a gamble: can Teppy finally run a Tale that really does avoid much of the "drag" in the middle? The initial signs are promising - almost all of the Tests are available for demonstration once we reach the required techs, and we know that he has to code the rest for T4A some time soonish. So we on Bastet may benefit in our gameplay pace from starting later.

However, it's a dangerous gamble for Teppy, which can still fail in any number of ways. If Bastet folds it will probably be after T5A starts, and we (and many others) are not likely to start playing T5A partway through. The 3 months extra subscriptions he got now will turn into something like a year and a half subscription loss while we wait and see on T6. That is if there is a T6 at all, or even a T5.

[Shebi]

It's still too close to the "honeymoon" stage to have this argument - don't waste your effort. But give it a few months, and we'll see whether Bastet dries up the same way every other tale does once the initial rush period is over. We haven't had anything new in main shard since all this was announced. So unless something changes and changes soon, Bastet will quickly catch up to the same stage and hit the same wall.

Or perhaps tests will end up being released on Bastet before on main shard. Now _that_ would be the real indication about how little teppy cares about the folks who have stuck by him and his game over the years.

In either case, new tests are only part of the equation anyway. What about events, storyline, and the like? How do they fit into a "completely player-driven" game? Until such time as teppy actually learns how to follow through on his promises and commit to real involvement, I don't have much hope for the future of the game.

Which makes me sad, but at some point it's not worth my energy and frustration to keep hoping for something better.

[Numaris]

The game doesn't need a new shard every three months. It needs enough content to fill one shard from start to finish.

In either case, new tests are only part of the equation anyway. What about events, storyline, and the like? How do they fit into a "completely player-driven" game? Until such time as teppy actually learns how to follow through on his promises and commit to real involvement, I don't have much hope for the future of the game.

Those two statements pretty well sum up my feelings on the subject. There's a goal to make the game more player-driven? That's great. I support that. So give us the tools to drive the game.

Here's one idea: make an interface for people to set up, run, and police their own Conflict tourneys. Right now that whole section of content is locked away until a Dev/GM decides let us use part of it for a short time. There's a lot of potential being missed there.

Also, diverging from the player-driven idea but on the subject of "other content", what ever happened to the storyline? I started two months into the telling, and it seems like I missed the whole thing. Sami has been completely absent, and Wahim only pops up to announce tests and ram land ownership down our throats. If he wants the middle and later stages of the game to continue to be interesting, Teppy needs to lead by example.

[Gumby]

Tests are just one type of content. How about the legal system that he has just made excuses for since the middle of T1?

So the Adn chariot was blown up today. How many months ago did we pass that law about explosives safety that has yet to be implemented?