Guides/Cooking - Revision history

Pheros Bastet: /* Masterpieces */

2010-04-18T13:38:16Z

Masterpieces

Fluclo Bastet: /* Masterpieces */

2010-03-28T18:53:53Z

Masterpieces

Min at 22:27, 2 March 2010

2010-03-02T22:27:45Z

Orrin at 19:06, 2 May 2009

2009-05-02T19:06:58Z

Arame: /* Anything Else? */

2009-04-29T11:10:56Z

Anything Else?

Bortox: /* Masterpieces */

2009-04-24T20:29:46Z

Masterpieces

Bortox: /* Masterpieces */

2009-04-24T20:29:20Z

Masterpieces

Orrin at 17:52, 10 April 2009

2009-04-10T17:52:48Z

Arame: /* Masterpieces */

2009-04-07T20:26:48Z

Masterpieces

Arame at 19:42, 16 March 2009

2009-03-16T19:42:48Z

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 == Masterpieces ==
-Masterpieces provide Gastronomy points; at 7 & 49 gastronomy, you receive permanent perception increases.  In order to achieve a masterpiece (MP), you need to a) cook a dish with a significant duration, and b) get lucky.  Essentially, an MP is possible whenever you cook a dish with a duration that meets a certain level (I'm guessing ~30 minutes).  When you cook that dish, you have a % chance of creating a masterpiece.  I'm going to hypothesize that the longer the duration, the better that % chance.  There are other rumors or theories abounding about an avatar's special ingredient, or certain recipes or combinations allowing MPs, and I would argue that those are not true.  You can cook the same recipe 49 times with no luck, and the 50th time, you could get an MP off of it.  I've tried rearranging the ordering of the ingredients, the quantities I add at a given time, etc., all with no noticeable effect. <br /><br />
+Masterpieces provide Gastronomy points; at 7, 49 & 243 gastronomy, you receive permanent perception increases.  In order to achieve a masterpiece (MP), you need to a) cook a dish with a significant duration, and b) get lucky.  Essentially, an MP is possible whenever you cook a dish with a duration that meets a certain level (I'm guessing ~30 minutes).  When you cook that dish, you have a % chance of creating a masterpiece.  I'm going to hypothesize that the longer the duration, the better that % chance.  There are other rumors or theories abounding about an avatar's special ingredient, or certain recipes or combinations allowing MPs, and I would argue that those are not true.  You can cook the same recipe 49 times with no luck, and the 50th time, you could get an MP off of it.  I've tried rearranging the ordering of the ingredients, the quantities I add at a given time, etc., all with no noticeable effect. <br /><br />
 *There is no random chance.  I don't know the mechanics behind how MPs are decided, but it's not random.  This tale, I've cooked 82 MPs so far, out of 170 attempts, which is right around a 50% success rate, some of which have had relatively short durations for the cooking level (30ish mins for a cooking 5 recipe)  -- bortox

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 *Here's my technique for cooking masterpieces.  This write up is going to assume a cooking level of 5, and it's going to use letters for base/additive pairs, so A is one base/additive pair, and B represents a different one.
+**First, find a recipe that gives a masterpiece.  Use base/additive pairs which are cheap, because you are going to burn through a lot of them.  So now you have your first masterpiece, let's call the recipe ABCDE.
-*First, find a recipe that gives a masterpiece.  Use base/additive pairs which are cheap, because you are going to burn through a lot of them.  So now you have your first masterpiece, let's call the recipe ABCDE.
+**Now, take the first four pairs, ABCD, and start adding other pairs, until you make another masterpiece.  Let's call that one ABCDF.  For the next recipe, take the new pair, plus 3 old ones, so for this example, we'll take BCDF.  Now try to match those 4 up with another new pair that will give a masterpiece, which we'll call GBCDF.  Do that again, so you'd have GCDF to find yet another masterpiece, which then would be GHCDF.
+**Keep repeating that process, and eventually you'll isolate pairings which give good odds for creating a masterpiece.  --bortox
 So, how do you create a high-duration recipe?  This is where the first half of the cooking data comes in.  All (most) of the cooking ingredients have been plotted on an (x,y) graph.  The closer two items are to one another, the higher the duration when you mix them.  Something called potency also effects this to a lesser degree, but I'm going to leave out that part for simplicity's sake.  So, using whatever tool, data, or picture you'd prefer, you want to find two ingredients that are very close together.  Generally, people try to use common ingredients (honey, mutton, camel meat, etc) as bases, and herbs as addditives (with mushrooms being able to fill both roles).  Then, find two more points that are close together.  And again.  After finding several sets of these base:additive pairings, mix them together in the pot and cross your fingers.  But dont' be discouraged if you don't get an MP your first few times.<br /><br />

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:27, 2 March 2010
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	*[http://sokar.cwru.edu/atitd/cooking.php Dachannien's Cooking Database] - I can never spell his name. This is a very nice tool for finding stat modifiers and distances. <br />		*[http://sokar.cwru.edu/atitd/cooking.php Dachannien's Cooking Database] - I can never spell his name. This is a very nice tool for finding stat modifiers and distances. <br />
	*[[User:Arame/Cooking\|Arame Cooking Data]] - a bunch of my stuff, including some very cluttered graphs for those who prefer a few pictures to a bunch of words. If you don't mind downloading the appropriate shareware, I use the GeoGebra tool to change the color of the additives I'm looking at, so I can easily find clumps & such. There's also a spreadsheet with a good number of 6:1 pairings (I use the AutoFilter feature to find stat modifiers, but it's only partial data).		*[[User:Arame/Cooking\|Arame Cooking Data]] - a bunch of my stuff, including some very cluttered graphs for those who prefer a few pictures to a bunch of words. If you don't mind downloading the appropriate shareware, I use the GeoGebra tool to change the color of the additives I'm looking at, so I can easily find clumps & such. There's also a spreadsheet with a good number of 6:1 pairings (I use the AutoFilter feature to find stat modifiers, but it's only partial data).
		+	*[[User:Min/cooking\|Mins cooking data]] - a few 6:1 pairings and some recipes of him

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 * The more of an additive you use, the higher the relative potency or "additive potency" of that ingredient, and the more it should boost your stats.  A 6:1 base-additive pair will generally have lower stats than a 4:3.  Bear that in mind when you start to make larger servings - you'll take a small hit to stats (and duration) mixing 23:1 recipes.  If you're really trying to max stats, mix 2:1 ratios (if you can afford the herbs).
 * This tale, we have seen issues where the base "overrides" the additive when two ingredients get very close together.  There seems to be a different threshold distance for this for different ingredients, and it's still under investigation (it may be related to the additive potency I just mentioned).  You '''may''' want to keep your duration pairs a little further apart to be safe.  To be safest, test the duration pairs and the power pairs ahead of time by cooking them individually (again, this can be costly if you're using rare herbs).
 * Record everything you do.  Even recipes you may consider abject failures can give researchers like me more data to work with.  Put them on the recipe page.  Ideally, I'd love to have every potential 6:1 combination recorded, so don't think that your recipes aren't worth posting on the Recipe page.
 * Salt!  Salt is an ingredient like any other, so it can be an additive or a base, and impacts the recipe normally.  However, salt also extends the time that a recipe will stay fresh from 2 days to 4 days.  After that time, the recipe spoils and is  unuseable.

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 * Record everything you do.  Even recipes you may consider abject failures can give researchers like me more data to work with.  Put them on the recipe page.  Ideally, I'd love to have every potential 6:1 combination recorded, so don't think that your recipes aren't worth posting on the Recipe page.
 * Salt!  Salt is an ingredient like any other, so it can be an additive or a base, and impacts the recipe normally.  However, salt also extends the time that a recipe will stay fresh from 2 days to 4 days.  After that time, the recipe spoils and is  unuseable.
 <br /><br />
 Have fun cooking!  There's a bit of number-crunching involved in this, but a lot of the work's been done for you.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:29, 24 April 2009
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	*There is no random chance. I don't know the mechanics behind how MPs are decided, but it's not random. This tale, I've cooked 82 MPs so far, out of 170 attempts, which is right around a 50% success rate, some of which have had relatively short durations for the cooking level (30ish mins for a cooking 5 recipe) -- bortox		*There is no random chance. I don't know the mechanics behind how MPs are decided, but it's not random. This tale, I've cooked 82 MPs so far, out of 170 attempts, which is right around a 50% success rate, some of which have had relatively short durations for the cooking level (30ish mins for a cooking 5 recipe) -- bortox
		+
		+	*Here's my technique for cooking masterpieces. This write up is going to assume a cooking level of 5, and it's going to use letters for base/additive pairs, so A is one base/additive pair, and B represents a different one.
		+
		+	First, find a recipe that gives a masterpiece. Use base/additive pairs which are cheap, because you are going to burn through a lot of them. So now you have your first masterpiece, let's call the recipe ABCDE.
		+
		+	Now, take the first four pairs, ABCD, and start adding other pairs, until you make another masterpiece. Let's call that one ABCDF. For the next recipe, take the new pair, plus 3 old ones, so for this example, we'll take BCDF. Now try to match those 4 up with another new pair that will give a masterpiece, which we'll call GBCDF. Do that again, so you'd have GCDF to find yet another masterpiece, which then would be GHCDF.
		+
		+	Keep repeating that process, and eventually you'll isolate pairings which give good odds for creating a masterpiece. --bortox

	So, how do you create a high-duration recipe? This is where the first half of the cooking data comes in. All (most) of the cooking ingredients have been plotted on an (x,y) graph. The closer two items are to one another, the higher the duration when you mix them. Something called potency also effects this to a lesser degree, but I'm going to leave out that part for simplicity's sake. So, using whatever tool, data, or picture you'd prefer, you want to find two ingredients that are very close together. Generally, people try to use common ingredients (honey, mutton, camel meat, etc) as bases, and herbs as addditives (with mushrooms being able to fill both roles). Then, find two more points that are close together. And again. After finding several sets of these base:additive pairings, mix them together in the pot and cross your fingers. But dont' be discouraged if you don't get an MP your first few times.<br /><br />		So, how do you create a high-duration recipe? This is where the first half of the cooking data comes in. All (most) of the cooking ingredients have been plotted on an (x,y) graph. The closer two items are to one another, the higher the duration when you mix them. Something called potency also effects this to a lesser degree, but I'm going to leave out that part for simplicity's sake. So, using whatever tool, data, or picture you'd prefer, you want to find two ingredients that are very close together. Generally, people try to use common ingredients (honey, mutton, camel meat, etc) as bases, and herbs as addditives (with mushrooms being able to fill both roles). Then, find two more points that are close together. And again. After finding several sets of these base:additive pairings, mix them together in the pot and cross your fingers. But dont' be discouraged if you don't get an MP your first few times.<br /><br />

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:52, 10 April 2009
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	In T3, there was some discussion about adding multiple quantities of an additive being wasteful. Because of the way that additives & bases interact (with bases overriding the interaction) in T4, I would argue that the additive quantity is very important now. When I'm crafting a very strong recipe, I test each base:additive pairing against multiple additive quantities to determine the best reaction. That means that for my very, very good recipes, I end up with Base(6):Add1(3):Add2(1):Add3(5); Base2(6):Add4(1):Add5(3) combinations, etc. It also means that crafting a very strong stat recipe consumes a much larger amount of additives. To that end, I do keep some of my recipes private because of the relative cost. I use several hundred herb additives to craft a 20+ stat recipe. This also means that moving from a 6-quantity base to a 9-quantity base involves re-crafting the recipe entirely (you can make educated guesses about the multiplier, but nothing guaranteed).		In T3, there was some discussion about adding multiple quantities of an additive being wasteful. Because of the way that additives & bases interact (with bases overriding the interaction) in T4, I would argue that the additive quantity is very important now. When I'm crafting a very strong recipe, I test each base:additive pairing against multiple additive quantities to determine the best reaction. That means that for my very, very good recipes, I end up with Base(6):Add1(3):Add2(1):Add3(5); Base2(6):Add4(1):Add5(3) combinations, etc. It also means that crafting a very strong stat recipe consumes a much larger amount of additives. To that end, I do keep some of my recipes private because of the relative cost. I use several hundred herb additives to craft a 20+ stat recipe. This also means that moving from a 6-quantity base to a 9-quantity base involves re-crafting the recipe entirely (you can make educated guesses about the multiplier, but nothing guaranteed).
		+
		+	Also note that multiple additives don't simply 'stack'. I've had a 5:1:1 recipe where each pairing gave +1 speed end up giving -1 speed. - Orrin

	== Anything Else? ==		== Anything Else? ==

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-== Basic Cooking Guide ==
+= Basic Cooking Guide =
 This is a rough starter guide for anyone who is interested in cooking, but is getting overwhelmed by the statistics, spreadsheets, database links, pictures and graphs that are present on the subject.  I'll make the disclaimer that this is written according to the best of my knowledge - there are a number of rumors that I've heard about cooking, but I'm going to ignore those for the most part.  Despite all my protestations, it's entirely possible that I'm mistaken about something here.  If you have specific questions, feel free to /chat Arame in game.
-=== The Basics ===
+== The Basics ==
 Cooking is accomplished by combining ingredients in a kitchen with a cookpot.  A recipe must be a minimum of 7 deben worth of ingredients (and each additional 7 deben = another serving).  There are two components to every recipe - one or more bases, and one or more additives.  Bases are defined as the item with the highest quantity in the cookpot (so 2 bases would require identical quantities).  Additives are everything else.  A common simple recipe or ratio is 6d of base and 1d of additive (I'll refer to that as 6:1, frequently, or base:additive).  Your cooking level determines how many bases you can use in a recipe without achieving muddled results.  There's also a limit to the total number of ingredients (not quantity) you can add to a pot - maybe 21? <br />
@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 I'm going to assume that everyone here has one of two goals in cooking: Masterpieces and/or Stats, and I'll tailor the next sections to those specifically.  There are a number of tools used in cooking, depending on personal preference - spreadsheets, online databases, graphs, and pictures.  They can mostly be found on the [[Recipes|Recipes]] page.  You'll want to know where those are and find something comfortable for you to use when cooking.
-=== Masterpieces ===
+== Masterpieces ==
 There is no random chance.  I don't know the mechanics behind how MPs are decided, but it's not random.  This tale, I've cooked 82 MPs so far, out of 170 attempts, which is right around a 50% success rate, some of which have had relatively short durations for the cooking level (30ish mins for a cooking 5 recipe)  -- bortox
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 * There are a lot of pairings that have been pre-selected for you.  Check the [[Recipes|Recipes]] page.
-=== Stats ===
+== Stats ==
 Probably the main purpose of cooking is to increase your stats, to make some task easier - Endurance for flax processing or digging, Constitution for smoking the hookah, Perception & Focus for dowsing, or Strength & Dexterity for carrying are but a few examples.  Masterpieces, while great for gastronomy points, tend to have lousy stats (my guild laughs at my MPs, because they all have huge negative stats).  In order to really get good stats, we're going to go back to our tools and look at another piece - the +/- data.  I'd strongly suggest dachennian's database (again, available from the Recipes page) for this, but if you're more comfortable with other formats, that's fine.  You can also find these for herbs on the [[Foraging|foraging]] page.<br /><br />
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 * The more specific the stats you want, the fewer additives you'll find that match those.  There are no + everything additives, and trying to find high str/dex/per/foc food for dowsing is much harder than just finding high per/foc food (for example).
-== A note on stat recipes & additive quantities (advanced) ==
+=== A note on stat recipes & additive quantities (advanced) ===
 In T3, there was some discussion about adding multiple quantities of an additive being wasteful.  Because of the way that additives & bases interact (with bases overriding the interaction) in T4, I would argue that the additive quantity is very important now.  When I'm crafting a very strong recipe, I test each base:additive pairing against multiple additive quantities to determine the best reaction.  That means that for my very, very good recipes, I end up with Base(6):Add1(3):Add2(1):Add3(5); Base2(6):Add4(1):Add5(3) combinations, etc.  It also means that crafting a very strong stat recipe consumes a much larger amount of additives.  To that end, I do keep some of my recipes private because of the relative cost.  I use several hundred herb additives to craft a 20+ stat recipe.  This also means that moving from a 6-quantity base to a 9-quantity base involves re-crafting the recipe entirely (you can make educated guesses about the multiplier, but nothing guaranteed).
-=== Anything Else? ===
+== Anything Else? ==
 Other things that strike me here: