User:Rabble/T5mining - Revision history

Rabble at 13:49, 25 May 2010

2010-05-25T13:49:33Z

Rabble: /* Gems */

2010-05-25T13:43:04Z

Gems

Rabble: /* Complexity of Mini-Game */

2010-05-25T13:24:42Z

Complexity of Mini-Game

Rabble: /* Crystal Shapes */

2010-05-25T13:18:24Z

Crystal Shapes

Rabble at 11:00, 25 May 2010

2010-05-25T11:00:19Z

Rabble at 14:15, 24 May 2010

2010-05-24T14:15:00Z

Rabble at 14:14, 24 May 2010

2010-05-24T14:14:24Z

Rabble at 14:00, 24 May 2010

2010-05-24T14:00:02Z

Rabble at 13:55, 24 May 2010

2010-05-24T13:55:07Z

Rabble at 13:41, 24 May 2010

2010-05-24T13:41:00Z

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 * If the size is decreased, how will it work?  I already had problem picking out matching rocks as the rock shapes and crystal shapes aren't always easy to see.  I frequently had to zoom in my camera to examine them closely or rotate the camera to examine them from several angles.  If the rocks are moved closer together or decreased in size, this will make picking the right crystals even harder.
 === Colorblind Mode ===
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 * Sometimes crystals spawn mostly on one side of a rock.  Since you need to examine all the rocks to spot different crystals, this can require a lot of camera panning and camera zooming in order to differentiate crystals.  It would be much better if the crystals spawned evenly on all sides of the rock.
 === Complexity of Mini-Game ===
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 * Why does the mini-game allow multiple people to use the same workload?  Mining has never been a group operation before.  People always mine solo.  This option might sound good on paper but will actually be rarely used and just adds to the overall complexity and possible bugs with the system.
 === Gems ===
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 *  How will sand mines work?  Many people use sand mines to find gems.  Some gems like opals and diamonds and sapphires are rare enough that it's very difficult to find a metal mine that produces those gems.   Most opal blocks, for example, do not contain any metal types.  If we need to rely on metal mines to produce gems, gems will be even rarer than they are now -- and huge gems are already one of the costlier items in the game.

@@ Line 78: / Line 78: @@
 === Gems ===
+* I only get 20 gems if I crumble the rocks after seven workloads.  After several dozen iron mine rock formations, I was unable to get even one crumble option when using colorblind mode.  Is colorblind mode balanced to allow gem pulls?  Is the crumble option supposed to be this rare?
+*  How will sand mines work?  Many people use sand mines to find gems.  Some gems like opals and diamonds and sapphires are rare enough that it's very difficult to find a metal mine that produces those gems.   Most opal blocks, for example, do not contain any metal types.  If we need to rely on metal mines to produce gems, gems will be even rarer than they are now -- and huge gems are already one of the costlier items in the game.

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 === Complexity of Mini-Game ===
-Any mini-game, even the best most enjoyable mini-game, gets old quickly once you have to do it over and over. And more complex mini-gamers get annoying faster since you have to spend more time just learning how to play them.  Very complex mini-games take so long to learn that by the time you figured them out, you want to play something else.
+* Any mini-game, even the best most enjoyable mini-game, gets old quickly.  If you have to do the mini-game over and over and over, it stops being fun and becomes annoying.  More complex mini-games become annoying faster since they require more effort to learn and play.  The T5 mining game would be fun if I only had to do it a few times or few dozen times.  It will be awful when I have to do it thousands and thousands of times since it sometimes takes a while just to find one solution.
 === Gems ===

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 The crystals are on top of the rocks and they are the smallest part of each rock.  Yet some of the crystal patterns are hard to pick out.
-* The square crystals and flat crystals are tough to spot unless you zoom in close.
+* The square crystals and flat crystals are tough to spot unless you zoom in close.  Overall, the crystals need to be larger and more easily distinguishable.
 === Complexity of Mini-Game ===

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 == Overview of T5 Mining ==
-The preliminary version of T5 mines were demonstrated during a welcome back weekend.  T5 mining is very different from T4 mining.  I didn't take any screen shots of a T5 mine but there is one image at http://ve3d.ign.com/images/67329/PC/A-Tale-in-the-Desert/Screenshots/May-6.
+T5 mining is very different from T4 mining.  I didn't take any screen shots of a T5 mine but there is one image at http://ve3d.ign.com/images/67329/PC/A-Tale-in-the-Desert/Screenshots/May-6.
-The first thing you'll notice is that a single T5 mine is huge.   The initial mine looks like a small cave with little crystals inside.  But once you start to use the mine, many separate rock formations show up in front of the mine.  The linked image shows 9 of these rocks formations.  Different types of mines (Copper, Iron, Tin, etc) have different numbers of formations.  Some of the higher end metals have 16+ formations.
+The mine is the little cave like structure in the middle of the picture.  When you work the mine, it spawns rock formations in front of the cave.  There are 9 rocks in the linked image. Different types of mines (Copper, Iron, Tin, etc) have different numbers of formations.  Some of the higher end metals have 16+ formations.
 Each rock formation has several properties.
-* The shape of the rock can vary.
+* The rock shapes can vary
 : The linked image shows rocks that are "bowl shaped" with a hollowed out center.  But some mine types have rocks that are pear shaped, egg shaped, flat, or have other irregular, hard to describe shapes.
-* The color of the rock can vary
+* The color of the patterns on the rock can vary
 : The linked image shows rocks that have colored star-burst patterns on them.  I'm very colorblind but I think some of the patterns are yellowish and others red or green.   The type of pattern varies with different metal types.  Some metals show star-bursts while others have wavy lines, circles, etc.
 * The base of the rock can vary
-: Some of the rocks in the linked image have bases made of other, smaller rocks while other bases are solid flat rims which surround the main rock.  Some metals have bases made of little, square rocks or jagged, angular rocks.
+: Some of the rocks in the linked image have flat washer-shaped bases while other bases are made of groups of smaller rocks.  There are additional base types for other metals.
 * The crystals on top of the rock can vary
@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 == Working a T5 mine ==
-To work a T5 mine, you first click on the center cave and choose whether to work the mine in "Normal Mode" or "Colorblind Mode".   Choosing either option then spawns all of the small rocks in front of the cave.   You then need to examine the small rock formations to find rocks that either all match each other or all differ from each other.   In the linked image, you could choose find several rocks that are all bowl-shaped, have yellow star-bursts, have flat rim bases, and square crystals on top.  Once you select enough matching rocks, you can choose to harvest them for ore.  The amount of ore acquired depends on the number of matches you found as well as the metal type.
+You work a T5 mine by clicking on the cave and choosing whether to use the mine in "Normal Mode" or "Colorblind Mode".  Both modes spawn the same number of rocks but colorblind mode no longer displays different colored patterns on the rocks.  Instead, some other aspect of the rock (such as base or crystal) changes.
-After you harvest the first batch of ore, you can then examine the rocks for more matches.  It's possible that one set of rocks will yield many ore pulls.  You can first find 3 rocks where the shape, color, base and crystals match.  Then find a different set of 3 that match.  And then another set.  And then a set of 3 where all have different shapes or color or base or crystals.
+Once the rocks spawn, you examine them and find three or more rocks where the rock shape, pattern color, rock base and crystal shape all match.  Or you can find three or more rocks where the shape, color, base or crystals all differ from each other.
-If you get 7+ matching sets in one particular set of rocks, you can then "crumble" the rocks to produce 20 gems.
+After finding and selecting the appropriate rocks, you choose to harvest the workload.  If you picked the correct rocks, you get 120+ ore.  Otherwise, you get no ore.  The rocks, however, remain in place and you can continue to try to find other matching sets of rocks.  If you find 7 sets of matching rocks in one rock formation, you can then "Crumble" the rocks in order to get 20 gems.  If you can't find 7 sets, you have to click on the cave and ask for a new set of rock formations.
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 === Size ===
 * If the mine is near a cliff, how will it work?  Will the rocks spawn inside the cliff?  Or will some rocks be at the base of the cliff while others are at the top?
@@ Line 41: / Line 39: @@
 * If the mine is near other mines, will the rocks overlap each other?   If T5 mines can be built as close together as T4 mines, then the rocks from one mine will overlap other mines.  With a T4 tin blob, for example, the center mine in the blob would have rocks that overlap the mines on either side *and* the mines in front of it.
-* If a mine is on a hill, how will it work?  This is similar to the cliff problem but slightly different.  Many things in ATiTD get built on hills and wind up "digging into" the hill to such a degree that it's difficult to see all side of the item you built.  The ATiTD camera controls are limited.  Rotating the camera view around an item built into the hill will often cause the viewpoint to jerk sharply upward or downward.  The T5 mines often have crystal formations or shapes that require looking at them from several angles.  This could make hill-based mines very difficult to use due to camera problems.
+* If a mine is on a hill, how will it work?  This is similar to the cliff problem but slightly different.  Many things in ATiTD get built on hills and wind up "digging into" the hill to such a degree that it's difficult to see all side of the item you built.  The ATiTD camera controls are limited.  Rotating the camera near hills frequently causes the viewpoint to jerk sharply upward or downward.  The T5 mines have crystal formations that often require looking at them from several angles.  This could make hill-based mines very difficult to use due to camera problems.
 * If the mine is near a river or lake, how will it work?  Will the rocks spawn on top of the water and seem to float?  Or will they spawn under the water where we can't see all of them?
-* The rock formations are large.  The higher end metals have such large rock formations that you can't actually click on all the rocks at once.  You need to run to different sides of the formation to choose different rocks.
+* If the mine is near other objects, how will it work?  Will the rocks spawn inside of guild halls or overlapping trees or inside warehouses?
 * If the size is decreased, how will it work?  I already had problem picking out matching rocks as the rock shapes and crystal shapes aren't always easy to see.  I frequently had to zoom in my camera to examine them closely or rotate the camera to examine them from several angles.  If the rocks are moved closer together or decreased in size, this will make picking the right crystals even harder.
 === Colorblind Mode ===
 === Crystal Shapes ===
 === Complexity of Mini-Game ===
 === Gems ===
-== Possible Solutions ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:15, 24 May 2010
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	=== Gems ===		=== Gems ===
		+
		+	== Possible Solutions ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:14, 24 May 2010
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	=== Size ===		=== Size ===

−	When you choose to work a mine, it spawns the rock formations in front of the mine. These smaller rocks are still fairly large and cover a lot of ground. Simple metal types like iron or copper have 7 (or 8) rocks. Higher end metals have 14+ rocks.	+	When you choose to work a mine, it spawns the rock formations in front of the mine. These smaller rocks are still fairly large and cover a lot of ground. Simple metal types like iron or copper have 7 (or 8) rocks. Higher end metals have 14+ rocks. To work the mine, you need to carefully examine all the smaller rocks and pick the right ones.
		+
		+	* If the mine is near a cliff, how will it work? Will the rocks spawn inside the cliff? Or will some rocks be at the base of the cliff while others are at the top?
		+
		+	* If the mine is near other mines, will the rocks overlap each other? If T5 mines can be built as close together as T4 mines, then the rocks from one mine will overlap other mines. With a T4 tin blob, for example, the center mine in the blob would have rocks that overlap the mines on either side and the mines in front of it.
		+
		+	* If a mine is on a hill, how will it work? This is similar to the cliff problem but slightly different. Many things in ATiTD get built on hills and wind up "digging into" the hill to such a degree that it's difficult to see all side of the item you built. The ATiTD camera controls are limited. Rotating the camera view around an item built into the hill will often cause the viewpoint to jerk sharply upward or downward. The T5 mines often have crystal formations or shapes that require looking at them from several angles. This could make hill-based mines very difficult to use due to camera problems.
		+
		+	* If the mine is near a river or lake, how will it work? Will the rocks spawn on top of the water and seem to float? Or will they spawn under the water where we can't see all of them?
		+
		+	* The rock formations are large. The higher end metals have such large rock formations that you can't actually click on all the rocks at once. You need to run to different sides of the formation to choose different rocks.
		+
		+	* If the size is decreased, how will it work? I already had problem picking out matching rocks as the rock shapes and crystal shapes aren't always easy to see. I frequently had to zoom in my camera to examine them closely or rotate the camera to examine them from several angles. If the rocks are moved closer together or decreased in size, this will make picking the right crystals even harder.
		+
		+	=== Colorblind Mode ===
		+
		+	=== Crystal Shapes ===
		+
		+	=== Complexity of Mini-Game ===
		+
		+	=== Gems ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:00, 24 May 2010
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−
	'''Please note that all of these comments refer to a very early version of T5 mining. We don't know how the final version of T5 mining will work.'''		'''Please note that all of these comments refer to a very early version of T5 mining. We don't know how the final version of T5 mining will work.'''

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	== Problems with T5 system ==		== Problems with T5 system ==
		+
		+	=== Size ===
		+
		+	When you choose to work a mine, it spawns the rock formations in front of the mine. These smaller rocks are still fairly large and cover a lot of ground. Simple metal types like iron or copper have 7 (or 8) rocks. Higher end metals have 14+ rocks.