Illusid/Delegate - Revision history

Illusid: /* Purpose and Theory */

2012-03-21T06:01:13Z

Purpose and Theory

Illusid at 22:30, 16 March 2012

2012-03-16T22:30:58Z

Illusid: /* Reaction to the vote */

2012-03-16T20:15:52Z

Reaction to the vote

Illusid at 20:02, 16 March 2012

2012-03-16T20:02:04Z

Illusid at 04:19, 16 March 2012

2012-03-16T04:19:24Z

Illusid at 03:41, 16 March 2012

2012-03-16T03:41:44Z

Illusid at 05:50, 15 March 2012

2012-03-15T05:50:45Z

Illusid at 01:42, 14 March 2012

2012-03-14T01:42:44Z

Illusid: Created page with "Vivix: Hello everybody. I come with a mandate from my group to either go for it, or elect someone sensible. Bryce: hi Vivix Bryce: don't know about sensible, but i believe i ha..."

2012-03-14T01:38:43Z

Created page with "Vivix: Hello everybody. I come with a mandate from my group to either go for it, or elect someone sensible. Bryce: hi Vivix Bryce: don't know about sensible, but i believe i ha..."

New page

Vivix: Hello everybody. I come with a mandate from my group to either go for it, or elect someone sensible.

Bryce: hi Vivix

Bryce: don't know about sensible, but i believe i have the qualities and qualifications to make an excellant dp

Osidion: Hello DP hopefuls :D

illusid: Hi Osidion although I am an elected delegate representing my constituents not a DP hopeful =)

Osidion: Well hello Illusid, please, call me Osi :D

Osidion: I am Hopeful, and hopefully there will be a bit more discussion this round than last :D

illusid: heya Osi anyhow just to explain what I mean a little bit, I have no desire to be DP but im not here from a default situation. I've heard abot serious problems in the later DP rounds where u have everyone there someone who really wants to be elected DP

illusid: My idea was to go forward as a representative of the votes of anyhow who didnt want to advance but also didnt want to give up their right to choose who is on the final ballot

illusid: i might actually try to expand this to include more people than myself and make a guild out of it but generally I'm here to listen and relay information to the people I represent and allow them to vote on who I vote for

Osidion: Can i ask what it is in a person that you and the people you represent would like to see in a DP candidate?

illusid: I can get back to you on that and I will likely forward a question or two from my constituents, but the vote really is literaly up to them as I will remain in contact and forward what is said here

Osidion: Ok, fair enough :D

illusid: I mean im happy to spout of personal opinions, but they won't nessecarily be representative of how I will vote. =)

illusid: but any dialogue is likely to help people make a better decision on who to vote for although I would suspect most if not everyone else is looking to be elected

Osidion: Yes, dialogue IS a good thing and i personally think it should be one of the quailties in a good DP :D

Osidion: So, whats "your" opinion of what qualities a DP candidate have?

Osidion: erm

Osidion: - should have*

illusid: well stable is good and i generally like people who work for the good of all of us above themselves

Osidion: back, had to walk my dogs :D

illusid: wb =)

Osidion: thanx :D

illusid: did u participate in the last dp elections osidion? and how far did u go if you did

illusid: sorry Osi =)

Osidion: yes i did participate in the last elections but i did not advance past the first round as i voted for someone else

Osidion: let me just say, i have been playing since T2 and have actively sought DP in the game, each tale i have made it to final voting at least once, and made DP in T5 :D

Osidion: And kind of like the role you are taking, i'd rather see someone more qualified than me go on the DP than me just passing a test

illusid: to me i think one of the greatest qualifications is to be able to step aside

illusid: especially when it comes to rounds where everyone there obviously has put a lot of effort into convinceing people they would make a good DP

Osidion: Actually, the ones i vote for have usually convinced me outside of DP rounds that they should get the shot :D

Osidion: by what they do and how they act towards others ingame

illusid: well I mean in say the sase last round I had a close friend in the final lulu round

illusid: everyone of them there wanted to advance to the open election, but they were in the messed up situation of noone else there to choose between them but themselves

illusid: this is the problem i see inherient in the group voting system

illusid: its more likely that the most reasonable among them will be the one to step aside at that point because why make it a tie?

Osidion: exactly

illusid: but then also its unfair to people who had supported people through a couple rounds of voting to be the one to step aside for someone they themselves might not nesssecarily support

illusid: anyhow im mostly stuck on this to explain my purpose here more than anything, I think the idea of throwing all the people trying to win DP into a group and making them vote on each other doesnt work very well.

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 ==Purpose and Theory==
-The delegate concept is quite simple really. I represent the people who have voted for me. The purpose is two-fold. The idea allows people who do not want become DP still have a voice in who shows up on the popular ballot. I feel that many people do care who becomes DP, however the ballot is decided by those who have done nothing other than convince citizens that they were the best candidate. If they truly believe that they are the best candidate then how can they vote for someone else in these group stages? Maybe they are being "reasonable" and breaking a deadlock tie that would benefit no one (except the candidates in other groups). Somehow through a discussion in the final rounds candidates are convinced that someone else is a better candidate? I think it's more likely the more passive, peaceful, cooperative, reasonable candidates step aside so we are left with candidates who are more likely to be stubborn and selfish. Possible bribery aside, it is an extremely selfless act to step aside in a final DP round to allow someone else to advance, and as soon as someone sets down and endorses someone else, the rest of the group have been beaten and they too fall in line. To me the person deserving of the DP '''IS''' the person who steps aside. My delegate system turns this terribly flawed system upside down. When encountering a full group of real candidates, the delegate vote is up for grabs none of the candidates need to step aside (by the way this is betraying the people who got you there unless you consult them, did you tell them you wanted to become DP? Then act like it.) Personally I have no intention of becoming DP myself, in fact I really don't even try to pass tests unless I enjoy doing them. I usually prefer working on projects among friends. However I do believe that sometimes the easy going helping people get stomped on in this game. Selfishness propels people to the top. Part of my delegate idea is to provide a voice for the non-power players. In fact one of my constituents tells me that it was the declaration that "I was a DP before" that influenced him/her to not support either of the candidates in my second round.
+The delegate concept is quite simple really. I represent the people who have voted for me. The purpose is two-fold. The idea allows people who do not want become DP still have a voice in who shows up on the popular ballot. I feel that many people do care who becomes DP, however the ballot is decided by those who have done nothing other than convince citizens that they were the best candidate. If they truly believe that they are the best candidate then how can they vote for someone else in these group stages? Maybe they are being "reasonable" and breaking a deadlock tie that would benefit no one (except the candidates in other groups). Somehow through a discussion in the final rounds candidates are convinced that someone else is a better candidate? I think it's more likely the more passive, peaceful, cooperative, reasonable candidates step aside so we are left with candidates who are more likely to be stubborn and selfish. Possible bribery aside, it is an extremely selfless act to step aside in a final DP round to allow someone else to advance, and as soon as someone sets down and endorses someone else, the rest of the group have been beaten and they too fall in line. To me the person deserving of the DP '''IS''' the person who steps aside. I hope my delegate system turns this terribly flawed system upside down. When encountering a full group of real candidates, the delegate vote is up for grabs none of the candidates need to step aside (by the way this is betraying the people who got you there unless you consult them, did you tell them you wanted to become DP? Then act like it.) Personally I have no intention of becoming DP myself, in fact I really don't even try to pass tests unless I enjoy doing them. I usually prefer working on projects among friends. However I do believe that sometimes the easy going, helping people get stomped on in this game. Selfishness and small cliques propels people to the top. Part of my delegate idea is to provide a voice for the non-power players. In fact one of my constituents tells me that it was the declaration that "I was a DP before" that influenced him/her to not support either of the candidates in my second round.
 ==Group Stage One==

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-The following is a transcript of the DP discussion in my group. This is posted for the purpose of helping my constituents decide on who I will be voting for. Gaps in the conversation represent time gaps. I missed some of the initial hellos and will try to record everything that is said to the best of my ability.
+==Purpose and Theory==
-==Group Transcript==
+==Group Stage Two==
 Welcome illusid, Osidion, Kimber, Yondri, Vivix, Bryce.
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 Osidion: I am Hopeful, and hopefully there will be a bit more discussion this round than last :D
-illusid: heya Osi anyhow just to explain what I mean a little bit, I have no desire to be DP but im not here from a default situation. I've heard abot serious problems in the later DP rounds where u have everyone there someone who really wants to be elected DP
+illusid: heya Osi anyhow just to explain what I mean a little bit, I have no desire to be DP but im not here from a default situation. I've heard abot serious problems in the later DP rounds where u have everyone there, someone who really wants to be elected DP
-illusid: My idea was to go forward as a representative of the votes of anyhow who didnt want to advance but also didnt want to give up their right to choose who is on the final ballot
+illusid: My idea was to go forward as a representative of the votes of anyone who didnt want to advance but also didnt want to give up their right to choose who is on the final ballot
 illusid: i might actually try to expand this to include more people than myself and make a guild out of it but generally I'm here to listen and relay information to the people I represent and allow them to vote on who I vote for
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 Osidion: Ok, fair enough :D
-illusid: I mean im happy to spout of personal opinions, but they won't nessecarily be representative of how I will vote. =)
+illusid: I mean im happy to spout off personal opinions, but they won't nessecarily be representative of how I will vote. =)
 illusid: but any dialogue is likely to help people make a better decision on who to vote for although I would suspect most if not everyone else is looking to be elected
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 ==Reaction to the vote==
 ====My comments on the outcome====
+I feel the outcome of this election was a total success. The voice of my constituents was heard. As I explained the Bryce in the private conversation transcript below, I was representing two constituents and not myself in my vote. One constituent voted to abstain, he indicated he did not care who or if anyone went forward from my round. The other constituent requested that I vote for myself. His/Her intention was to create a deadlock and prevent Bryce from advancing unless someone else decided to vote for me or Bryce. The conversation I had with Bryce after the election makes me even feel on a personal level that the vote of my constituents was the right one. I feel that in the transcript below from our private conversation he has shown to me that he either doesn't pay attention to what people are saying or simple ignores it. Had he checked this page he would have been able to read everything that he missed in the conversation (the fact that Osidion also wanted to advance). I also feel that his general tone was confrontational, and his reaction to me personally was hostile. This is exactly why constituents will remain unnamed unless they wish to come forward on their own. I have put a lot of effort into creating this page and communicating with my constituents. Certainly more than Bryce spent on talking to peers of our group. I have never chatted with Bryce before that I can recall, perhaps the constituent who wanted to keep Bryce off the popular ballot has, i don't know. I was kind of shocked to wake up to charges of not doing what I said I would do, and a little '''friendly?'' caps lock in my chat windows. People commonly ask what do you want in a DP? I answered Osi in our group discussion, my number one quality is for a candidate to be stable. To me this means asking questions, understanding a situation and responding to it in a way that doesn't have the tendency to escalate the situation into a shouting match.

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 ==Reaction to the vote==
 Bryce: i don't understand. you were a "delegate"  you did not intend to advance past the this round, so why did you vote for yourself???
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 illusid: That isn't true Osi also desired to move on, however I guess he did not vote.

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+==Group Transcript==
 Welcome illusid, Osidion, Kimber, Yondri, Vivix, Bryce.
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 illusid voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.

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		+	illusid: Ok this is the situation with my vote after consulting with my constituents (only two of them for the record) One has expressed no preference at all, and the other has instructed me to vote for myself and "hope for a better selection next round" tbh I don't even know if there will be a next round, and I hope none of you take this personally.
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		+	illusid: I do however extend the offer to serve as the delegate for any of you. I did not intend to advace past this round as I worry that it may be the last before a general election.
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		+	illusid: And good luck to all of you in this and future elections!
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		+	illusid voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:41, 16 March 2012
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	illusid: Bryce it may have gotten scrolled off the screen for you, but i will reitterate, I was elected by my constituents to serve as a delegate in this round. my vote is solely determined by those who put me here. anything said here I will be posting to the wiki for them to read and decide on who to elect.		illusid: Bryce it may have gotten scrolled off the screen for you, but i will reitterate, I was elected by my constituents to serve as a delegate in this round. my vote is solely determined by those who put me here. anything said here I will be posting to the wiki for them to read and decide on who to elect.
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		+	1 day 17 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
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		+	Bryce: am curious, are we going to have a debate or discussion on reaching a consensus on who should be voted to go to the next round?
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		+	1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
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		+	Bryce: some of my qualifications are; i've played here since T2 so i know the norms and boundaries of the society, i've been a dp before so i understand the responsibilities of the position,
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		+	Bryce: and i have more experience than anyone in the game dealing with the sorts of disputes that usually requre a dp's intervention, as i am part of a mediation board that meets 3 times a month to mediate auto medical claims. i use those skills a lot to settle disputes and reach a consensus here, also.
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		+	illusid: Bryce it may have gotten scrolled off the screen for you, but i will reitterate, I was elected by my constituents to serve as a delegate in this round. my vote is solely determined by those who put me here. anything said here I will be posting to the wiki for them to read and decide on who to elect.
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		+	illusid: http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale6/Illusid/Delegate
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		+	Bryce: i understand your purpose here, illusid. I've never been in a dp round where I was not able to have a discussion and have a consensus formed as to who should advance.
		+	Bryce: it has not always been myself, of course, but the rounds I have been in, i have been able to take 7 ppl, all who are interested in becoming dp, and reach a decision as to who should advance.
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		+	21 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
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		+	Bryce: I am not interested in becoming a dp just to pass a test. In my experience here, if you have a dp that is skilled in negotiations and mediation, they are able to diffuse the situation and get the parties to hopefully alter their behaviour and reach an agreement.
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		+	Bryce: i have done that unofficially, and officially since i started this game. Being a DP would allow me more opportunitites to mediate the various disputes that arise here.
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		+	Bryce: I had hoped to have some discussion with the rest of the candidates in this round regarding your candidates qualifications, reasons, and observations about becoming a DP.
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		+	Bryce: Since no one except myself has posted any qualifications, thoughts on what they would do as a DP, or given me any reason to vote for them, AND because I will not be on again until after the deadline for voting, I am forced to vote for who I believe would make the best DP from this group, which, based on the game and r/l experience I have, would be myself.
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		+	Bryce: And i would ask for all of you to support me in my bid to become the next DP
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		+	Vivix: Yes, that's a normal way to see it.
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		+	Bryce: I don't like to vote until the group has reached a consensus, but as no one else has really spoken, i don't have a choice
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		+	Bryce voted for himself as Demi-Pharaoh.
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		+	Osidion: you and i and Illusid have been the only ones to really speak at all :\|
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← Older revision		Revision as of 05:50, 15 March 2012
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	illusid: anyhow im mostly stuck on this to explain my purpose here more than anything, I think the idea of throwing all the people trying to win DP into a group and making them vote on each other doesnt work very well.		illusid: anyhow im mostly stuck on this to explain my purpose here more than anything, I think the idea of throwing all the people trying to win DP into a group and making them vote on each other doesnt work very well.
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		+	Bryce: am curious, are we going to have a debate or discussion on reaching a consensus on who should be voted to go to the next round?
		+	1 day 16 hours left in this Demi-Pharaoh round.
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		+	Bryce: some of my qualifications are; i've played here since T2 so i know the norms and boundaries of the society, i've been a dp before so i understand the responsibilities of the position,
		+
		+	Bryce: and i have more experience than anyone in the game dealing with the sorts of disputes that usually requre a dp's intervention, as i am part of a mediation board that meets 3 times a month to mediate auto medical claims. i use those skills a lot to settle disputes and reach a consensus here, also.
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		+	illusid: Bryce it may have gotten scrolled off the screen for you, but i will reitterate, I was elected by my constituents to serve as a delegate in this round. my vote is solely determined by those who put me here. anything said here I will be posting to the wiki for them to read and decide on who to elect.

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:42, 14 March 2012
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		+	The following is a transcript of the DP discussion in my group. This is posted for the purpose of helping my constituents decide on who I will be voting for. Gaps in the conversation represent time gaps. I missed some of the initial hellos and will try to record everything that is said to the best of my ability.
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		+	Welcome illusid, Osidion, Kimber, Yondri, Vivix, Bryce.
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	Vivix: Hello everybody. I come with a mandate from my group to either go for it, or elect someone sensible.		Vivix: Hello everybody. I come with a mandate from my group to either go for it, or elect someone sensible.