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Appears as though malt (or wheat) must be added to the mixture - running a pure honey test came up with no flavor values, causing a cloying beer even with high levels of alcohol and low levels of remaining glucose.--Ruggan 07:31, 4 February 2009 (EST)
Confirmed this, the addition of a single unit of malt allowed the flavor values to come forth. Also, if someone wants to make a yeast table, I will try to contribute.--Ruggan 01:40, 5 February 2009 (EST)
Does any one have a copy of the old beer calculator available?
Multi yeast beers
As I was working on making a new beer calculator, and thinking of implementing multiple yeasts, i came across an interesting observation that could explain why multi-yeast beers are not behaving as expected !
This is the idea:
1) I believe the sequence described for single yeast beers (the 8 steps on main beer page) is correct, as with yeast growth of 10, 20, 30 and 40%, it can explain all the maximum alcohol levels found.
2) It is however false to state that the alcohol ceiling of the yeast is equal to the maximum alcohol found in single yeast beers !!!
3) In fact, it is impossible to derive the alcohol ceiling from a single yeast brew (it is only possible to give a range).
I explain with an example: y10 gives up to 1421 alcohol, which means it grows with 40%. The last step is from alcohol 1008 to 1421. So ANY alcohol ceiling between 1009 and 1421 is possible. Example: ceiling is 1100 alcohol, then after 10 steps of growth, we get 1008 alcohol = lower then ceiling, so the yeast grows one step more --> alcohol gets to 1421 ! (Same effect as with vitamin floor, the vitamins in the resulting beer is lower then the actual vitamin floor of the yeast) As we have no way to influence the alcohol levels in a single yeast brew (it always starts at 10, and the yeast grows always the same), it is impossible to narrow the range of the alcohol ceiling.
But when we have a multi-yeast brew, the alcohol production is produced by several yeasts, and now the real ceiling can interfere and produce "strange" maximum alcohol levels: for instance in step 10 the alcohol from y10 is 1008, but anohter yeast has produced let's say 100 alcohol, then the 1108 alcohol will already hit the ceiling for y10 and it will die on the next step. The multi-yeast beer can now produce less then 1421 alcohol (or more if alcohol after 10 steps of y10 is for instance 1050, then it will go up to 1463 before y10 dies).
I will try to make some multi-yeasts beer soon to find some evidence for this... -- Amnhotep
This is interesting, Amnhotep. I'm curious how it was discovered that yeast grows in steps -- how does that work? Once I find out, I'll try to incorporate that into my own multi-yeast research.
What I have confirmed so far (to my satisfaction, at least) is that multi-yeast brews operate by each microbe converting a specific # of sugar, and flavors are calculated accordingly. For example, I have a kettle that ferments Y3/Y64 into 525 alcohol, and flavor calculations indicate that in this mix, 433 alcohol is produced by Y3 and 92 alcohol by Y64 (or something very close). Near to that, I have a kettle that ferments Y64/Y3 into 488 alcohol -- here, the flavors are consistent with Y64 producing 309 alcohol and Y3 producing 179. -- Hekatef