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User:Miranni
Fish Farms
The Intent
To provide another source of fish in the game, as well as open up several new options for advancement in the fishing/animal care areas.
Thoughts
Fishing in ATITD is often not enjoyable because it is very limited in scope. It is mainly confined to the in-game evenings and certain fish can only be found in certain areas. Fish farming has been practiced since the 5th century BC (see/Google “Ancient inventions, Volume 16” by Peter James, Nick Thorpe if you like).
The player should be able to see the types and numbers of the fish in the pond as well as several stats determining the growth rate and reproduction of the fish. Fish could be taken from the farm pond at anytime through fishing poles or perhaps the use of a net item/feature. The first two fish of a type would have to collected and would require a jar to transport alive after being caught (either from the Nile or from someone else's pond). If you really wished, you could set a time limit on how long the fish could remain in the jar in inventory before it must be put into a pond (or die), somewhat along the lines of the grape and fresh leaf coding that is already in the game. There should also be an option to “throw it back” if it is not the fish that you wanted.
Farm ponds would be able to hold a maximum amount of fish based on size. The ponds would probably have to be “claimed” in some way in order to prevent theft. This might be achieved by proximity to a compound owned by the claiming player. Other options could be the use of a menu on the water's surface or a building (sort of how a water mine works) that does not let any other player build another within a certain distance. This should not be a high level building as the intent of the fish pond is to make it accessible to all players (easy to learn/start, more difficult to master). If there have been no fish in a farm pond for an extended length of time, it could be considered “dead” and allow players to fish from the lake as they would normally (this would be separate from the cleanup act and would only allow regular fishing until the time limit on the claim/building ran out).
I would suggest that it also become possible to create ponds through digs. It could also let players expand existing water features to hold more fish. This would prevent the need for people to find a home with an large or multiple number of ponds and prevent them from running around and claiming random ponds that are not near their home. It would take longer to setup a player created pond as it would have to be filled and it would take time (hours to several days perhaps depending on how big of an area was dug) for the dirt to settle in the water. Water could be brought in jugs or perhaps filled through aqueducts (perhaps this could be a special tower of its own; it could count towards the test of life in some way, and allow the creation of large public or guild fish farms later in the game). Perhaps special canals could be built to allow filling from rivers and other lakes, or else allow sites to fill in slowly with "groundwater." It might also be required to collect clay to line the pond area before it is allowed to be filled with water, or else the water will seep back out.
This could become a full scale craft with associated tests and contests; passing/prizes could be based on total fish populations, numbers of certain types, or even something along the lines of the beetle competitions; some fish, such as the carp, may be judged on the coloration and patterns of its scales (this would require a viewer along the lines of the beetle terrarium), while other fish could be judged on the size or length it obtains (providing another way for the taxidermy skill to be used). I would suggest that mounted farmed fish have a distinctive name such as “Farmed Perch” or else an invisible flag on them for ease of use in these contests (and proof they were obtained from a farm) as well as preventing them from being used in the fishing events that are currently held.
I can easily see fishing as a lower level art test. It could also very well be a harmony test, as creating the perfect balance within the pond should produce the best fish, and large fish farms may require the use of multiple players to keep it maintained.
Fish Pond Care Factors
These affect the growth and rates of your fish populations. The first factor would be the size of the pond. More water means more fish. Water calculations generally work out to about 13 gallons per fish, though for some fish overcrowding is not a problem. If calculating water volume is a problem then perhaps there needs to be no limits other than what the player can handle, which would also change how some stats move, such as eliminating the consideration of overcrowding.
Several stats would affect the pond and how things grow in it. Some of these stats would require Ecology skills to check and adjust properly and some would be available by clicking on the water surface or perhaps through the use of a small outdoor building that is built in/next to a pond in order to claim it. . The claim building could possibly be a filter, which could be later upgraded to hold stat regulation components, and eventually automate some maintenance and improve the status of the pond.
* Pollution – for ponds, this is somewhat synonymous with turbidity/sediment, as heavy metals are contained within sediments and when stirred up are released into the water until they settle again; anyone should be able to tell somewhat if there is pollution but checking with Ecology level 1 would provide much more accurate results (perhaps including time to clarity); might be able to tie in level 5 Ecology as well
o Needed for
+ Some fish prefer it for optimal growth
o Too much creates
+ slow fish growth, lower reproduction; dead fish at high levels
+ higher nitrogen at higher levels
+ lower plant growth
o Source
+ in game pollution sources
+ Tilapia (they dig and create turbidity by stirring up sediments; minor cause unless there are a lot of them)
+ water mine (creates turbidity; low cause - very localized)
o Reductions
+ time
+ Catfish/bottom feeders
+ snails
+ plants (can absorb some but will die if it is too high)
+ Filter (would be somewhat slow but should help stabilization)
* pH/acidity – check with Ecology level 2; components to adjust could be stored in the filter
o Needed for
+ Proper range is 7.5 – 8.5 (range is 0 'acid' -14 'base')
o Too much creates
+ slow fish growth, lower reproduction; dead fish if it gets too high
+ increased nitrogen (if they are separate stats, higher phosphorous would increase pH slightly instead of the pH increasing the phosphorous, but this is a minor point)
+ increased algae growth
o Too little creates
+ slow fish growth, lower reproduction; dead fish if it gets too low
+ plant growth slows; eventually plant death
o Source
+ fish will increase pH over time; if overcrowding is a factor it will increase drastically
+ tied to water hardness
+ could possibly be tied to region
+ over time, the tendency of a pond in an area would be to return to the original pH unless there are other factors affecting it
o Reductions
+ to increase pH increase water hardness (add ash/charcoal)
+ to lower pH add plants (or plant byproducts, ie cabbage juices or compost), sulfur (catalyst), dung, or anything acidic (wine, acids); additionally water can be removed and replaced if you wanted to track water amounts/concentrations
* Algae – check by clicking on lake surface or building
o Needed for
+ Fish food
+ algae does not bother fish except when it lowers water temperature and oxygen levels
o Too much creates
+ Low Oxygen
+ Low Water Temperature
o Too little creates
+ Food shortage for some fish
o Sources
+ Nitrogen/Phosphorous
+ Dead fish/plant matter
o Reductions
+ Increased plant cover
+ Decreased nitrogen
+ Vegetation eaters
+ Bottom Feeders
* Plant Levels - check by clicking on lake surface or building; Plants would grow naturally over time when water is unpolluted/settled. They could also be obtained through the lily breeding as well as by additional plants collected through fishing (“your hook snags some water weeds from the bottom”) and then grown in the pond. Certain herbs might also be created/redone to be grown in water from their seeds. This could eventually branch out into its own area of pond/plant keeping, and could include cross breeding lilies and other flowers for better stat controls.
o Needed for
+ Oxygen
+ Temperature control
+ Nitrogen Control
+ Pollution Control
o Too much creates
+ algae blooms
+ too low temperature
o Sources
+ Time (should start quickly and then stabilize)
+ Nitrogen/Phosphorous should increase rate of plant growth
+ Grain fertilizer used nearby
o Reductions
+ Pollution should lower rate of plant growth
+ Vegetation eaters will consume at a steady rate – over breeding of vegetation eaters should lower the growth rate proportionally unless unchecked
+ Weed Killer used nearby would slowly kill plants
* Nitrogen and Phosphorous - These can be separated if desired, but they do similar things. Some readings should be obtainable through clicking the lake surface or building but Ecology level 4 would allow greater accuracy and control of these variable (perhaps telling what catalyst would have most effect at the time, etc). Nitrogen is mostly caused by decomposition and excrement; Phosphorous is found more from seepage into the pond from groundwater or fertilizers
o http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/education/ras/publications/water_quality/Ammonia%20in%20Fish%20Ponds%20463fs.pdf http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fish/AQUANIC/documents/462fs.pdf – if you want some more information on nitrogen
o Needed for
+ Plant Growth
o Too much creates
+ dead fish
+ algae
o Sources
+ All fish produce nitrogen from their excrement
+ Pollution from nearby buildings
+ grain fertilizer used nearby
+ dead fish
+ dead plants
+ overfeeding
o Reductions
+ snails – huge impact; too many snails will kill plants
+ Catfish
+ plants will absorb a steady amount of nitrogen; low nitrogen will stunt plant growth
+ reduce feedings
+ filter will reduce nitrogen after a time (bacteria has to build up in the filter to break down wastes)
+ salt (10:1 ratio of salt to nitrogen to prevent all fish absorption)
o Other Notes
+ More nitrogen is produced when the pH level is higher (above 7)
* Oxygen
o Needed for
+ fish to breathe
o Too much creates
+ No problems
o Too little creates
+ fish death
o Sources
+ PlantsAlgae (during the day)
+ Water formations
# water falls
# fountains
# water mine
+ Filter
+ increases in colder temperatures
o Reductions
+ will reduce slowly over time in warm temperatures
+ fish
+ algae and plants consume oxygen at night
+ algae death/other decomposition (Nitrogen)
* Salinity – Check by clicking on pond or filter building; improved readings might be given with the Ecology 3 skill.
o Needed for
+ A small amount is needed for fish health
# carp do fine without any salt
# some species need more salt to do well
o Too much creates
+ dead plants in medium doses
+ dead fish in higher doses
o Sources
+ Evaporation
+ may be tied to region?
+ Adding salt
o Reductions
+ Add more water
+ Filter
+ Fish will reduce salinity slowly over time
o Other Notes
+ 1-2 pounds of salt per 100 gallons or .18%
+ This factor could easily be removed if desired.
* Water Temperature
o Needed for
+ fish/plant health
o Too high creates
+ algae blooms
+ lower oxygen levels
o Too little creates
+ slow plant and fish growth
+ higher oxygen levels
o Sources
+ Seasonal
+ Plant covers (lowers temperature)
+ filter (perhaps a heater upgrade at higher levels)
Fish Types and Information
The optimal ratio for predator to prey fish is 3 prey for every predator. There would also be need for some small invertebrates (snails) which would provide cleaning and food for some of the omnivorous fish. They could be found like the tadpoles by collecting water, but should be more uncommon, somewhat like flint is in clay. As for the tadpoles, perhaps putting them in the pond would provide for a very small chance of a bullfrog showing up at the pond. They would also be a food source. Other food sources could be cabbage, fresh leaves (of any week until they turn into compost), beetles, barley/wheat, and of course the water plants that are growing in the lake. In a well balanced pond, these other food sources would not be necessary, but would be considered treats and could perhaps provide stat bonus or fish bonuses (beetles might make certain fish grow better or have a chance for a color/pattern mutation, for instance). For a single fish farm, the fish could be exclusively fed these foods without regards to the availability of water plants, but much more of these resources would be necessary to maintain a healthy population, and for some fish they would require multiple types of food in order to have optimal rates.
This is important because for a well balanced pond you do not want too much of one thing, unless you wish to use a pond to breed one type of fish. This would require a lot more resources and more careful monitoring because of the lack of checks and balances. So a well balanced pond would possibly need maintenance once a week, while a farm pond would need daily checks and feeding and consume a lot more additional resources such as ash, salt, etc. Additionally you would need to find or dig a separate pond for each type of fish you wished to farm in this manner.
* Abdju Fish: From the city Abydos, I see the references to it as a sacred fish of Osiris and as a Dagon or fish god but
there is not information I can find on what type of fish it actually is; can make this another omnivore or perhaps a bottom feeder (since it did eat from the body of Osiris) or use to fill in some other gap that is discovered
* Carp Fish: Vegetation
o medium tolerance to nitrogen and pollution
o extremely high temperature and oxygen tolerance
o Freshwater only, can only tolerate a low amount of salt
o Voracious vegetation eaters, but they will on occasion eat small crustaceans or insects
o medium growth, long lived, medium reproduction as the young are often eaten
* Catfish: Bottom Feeder
o low tolerance to nitrogen
o High tolerance to just about everything else
o They will eat anything, but prefer to bottom feed and eat algae, though they will move up the chain to vegetation
or smaller fish if they have no other food
* Chromis Fish: Omnivorous (plankton, algae, small crustaceans)
o these fish make excellent feeders due to smaller size and rapid breeding
o they are very tolerant of poor water conditions but do need a slightly higher salinity to be successful breeders
o they will kill each other if overcrowded
* Malapteru: assuming this refers to the genus Malapterus, a wrasse, cleaner fish or eater of small crustaceans
o could increase fish lifespan and breeding rates slightly
o would probably want median amount of these fish for fish health and for food fish
o these are marine fish and so would enjoy higher salinity but lower salinity does not bother them for short periods
of time
o these fish are not often eaten by predators except in low food conditions
o adaptable to most temperatures
o normal pH and nitrogen tolerance
* Oxyrynchus: name comes from a town, may refer to mormyrid or elephant nose fish
o eat small crustaceans and worms from the pond bottom, some will eat small fish
o greatly prefers warm waters (around 75 degrees) but can survive in cooler temperatures
o likes lots of vegetation for cover and prefers some turbidity
o prefers a slightly lower than normal pH (6.8 – 7.2 is optimal)
o is found in freshwater and marshy areas and can tolerate a medium salinity
o can take in oxygen from the surface of pond if necessary so can survive lower oxygen conditions fairly well
* Perch: smaller carnivorous fish - http://www.tdvan.freeserve.co.uk/Perch%20Details.htm o high growth rate as long as food is plentiful/will hunt aggressively if food is not o best coloration/growth in clear waters but will tolerate a good deal of pollution o medium spawn rate with lots of eggs but will eat their own young o will want a low amount of these fish o perch do not eat vegetation but it does help growth rates by providing places to hide (lower stress) o They are a freshwater only fish and will not tolerate high salinity; even lower amounts will slow growth greatly o they will survive in all temperatures but too cold or too hot water will slow growth and reproduction o pH tolerance increases with age; young fish and eggs do not handle pH out of normal ranges o normal nitrogen tolerance o does not tolerate low oxygen well
* Phargrus: may be referring to a type of eel or catfish; as I do not know the type of fish intended it would be up to
development to decide what type of fish is needed; perhaps another carnivore type
* Serpent Fish: assuming this is “Ophichthidae” or from the Greek “serpent fish;” refers to worm or snake eels; carnivorous
o tropical to warm temperate waters
o fresh to marine environments
o breeding habits for eels are still unknown, but it is likely a slow breeder and takes years to reach maturity
o long lived and likely grow at a medium rate; they do not hunt and prefer to sit and wait for food to swim by
o will want a low- medium amount of these fish
o prefers slightly higher pH and salinity
o high tolerance for low oxygen
o high nitrogen tolerance
* Tilapia: Omnivorous with a preference for vegetation
o http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA012 – for some numbers
+ grows fast
+ spawns often and in large numbers
o prefers warm waters for growth and breeding but can tolerate cold
o creates pollution/turbidity by digging to lay eggs; can tolerate a lot of sediment in the water
o good pH tolerance; can handle lower pH better than higher pH
o normal Nitrogen tolerance
o is found in all water types (fresh to marine); high salinity tolerance
o a very common farmed fish
| A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I | J | K | L | M | N | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Fish | Food Type | Amount in Pond | Temperature Tolerance | Pollution Tolerance | pH Tolerance | Low Oxygen Tolerance | Nitrogen Tolerance | Salinity Tolerance | Growth | Reproduction | Can Cause Problems with | Can Help Control/will eat | Notes |
| 2 | Abdju Fish | Unknown | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | Nitrogen | n/a | As I do not know what type
of fish this is intended to be I cannot make any judgments; perhaps it could be used to provide a gap filler or additional vegetation eatersif necessary. |
| 3 | Carp Fish | Vegetation | Medium Number | High | Medium | Good (6.0 – 9.0) | High | Medium | Low | Medium | Medium | Nitrogen, Vegetation | Vegetation | Consumes high amounts of vegetation, Will occasionally eat snails and bug treats |
| 4 | Catfish | Bottomfeeder | Medium Number | High | High | High | High | Low | Medium | Slow | Medium | Vegetation, Other Fish if not fed | Pollution, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Algae, Snails, Tadpoles, Vegetation, Fish | They will clean up pollution
and nitrogen, then move to algae, snails, tadpoles then vegetation and finally fish if there are no other food sources; probably the easiestfish to farm as they eat just about everything if they must |
| 5 | Chromis Fish | Omnivore | Low Number | High | High | Good | High | High | Medium | Medium | Rapid | Nitrogen, Overcrowding | Algae, Vegetation, Snails, Tadpoles | good starter/feeder fish
due to small size and rapid breeding; but they will attack each otherif overcrowded |
| 6 | Malapteru | Cleanerfish | Medium Number | High | Low | Medium | Low | Medium | Excellent | Slow | Slow | Nitrogen | Increase Fish Growth/lifespan; will eat snails or bottomfeed if there are no fish to clean | Not often eaten by predators |
| 7 | Oxyrynchus | Carnivore | Low Number | Low | High | Low | High | Medium | Medium | Medium | Medium | Nitrogen, Snail Population | Snails, Fish | mostly eats snails, maybe tadpoles? |
| 8 | Perch | Carnivore | Low Number | Medium | Medium | Medium | Medium | Medium | Low | Fast | Medium | Fish populations, Nitrogen | Fish, Snails, Tadpoles | voracious predators |
| 9 | Phargrus | Unknown | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | n/a | Nitrogen | n/a | As I do not know what type
of fish this is intended to be I cannot make any judgments; perhaps it could be used to provide a gap filler or additional feeder/vegetationeaters if necessary. |
| 10 | Serpent Fish | Carnivore | Medium Number | Low | Medium | Medium | High | High | Excellent | Medium | Slow | Nitrogen | Fish, Snails, Tadpoles | medium predators |
| 11 | Tilapia | Omnivore | Low Number | High | High | Good (6.0-8.5) | Medium | Low | Excellent | Fast | Rapid | Pollution, Nitrogen | Algae, Vegetation, Snails, Tadpoles | would be excellent starter fish, will eat just about anything |
| 12 | ||||||||||||||
| 13 | ||||||||||||||
| 14 | Additional Things | Food Type | Amount in Pond | Temperature Tolerance | Pollution Tolerance | pH Tolerance | Low Oxygen Tolerance | Nitrogen Tolerance | Salinity Tolerance | Growth | Reproduction | Can Cause | Can Help Control | |
| 15 | Snails | Bottom Feeder, Vegetation | Medium Number | High | High | High | High | Medium | Low | Medium | Rapid | Vegetation death, low pH | Nitrogen, Provides Food | snails can cause low pH if overpopulated because they absorb carbon and calcium for their shells. |
| 16 | Tadpoles | Bottom Feeder, Vegetation | Medium Number | Low | Medium | Medium (7+) | Medium | Low | Low | Rapid | Medium | Provides food | Could have a very small
chance of producing a bullfrog for the safari test, perhaps it's own“type” of bullfrog so it can only be used once by a person. | |
| 17 | Water Plants | Nitrogen, Phosphorous, | Medium Number | High | Medium | Excellent | High | High | High | Rapid | Rapid | Lower temperatures, low oxygen | Nitrogen/Phosphorous, Provides food | |
| 18 | Algae | Nitrogen, Phosphorous, | Medium Number | Low | High | Good (prefers basic) | Medium | High | High | Fast | Rapid | Low Temperatures, low oxygen | Nitrogen/Phosphorous, Provides food | |
| 19 |
