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Difference between revisions of "Wine/Flavors"

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(Created page with "<font size="-2">< Wine</font> == T4 Flavors == {| border="1" cellpadding="5" |- ! Taste Category<br>(Tier 1) !! Primary Tastes<br>(Tier 2) !! Secondary Tastes<br>(Tier...")
 
 
(103 intermediate revisions by 16 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
 
<font size="-2">[[Wine|< Wine]]</font>
 
<font size="-2">[[Wine|< Wine]]</font>
  
−
== T4 Flavors ==
+
== Tale 6 Flavors ==
  
 
{| border="1" cellpadding="5"
 
{| border="1" cellpadding="5"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! Taste Category<br>(Tier 1) !! Primary Tastes<br>(Tier 2) !! Secondary Tastes<br>(Tier 3) !! Vintage !! Notes
+
! Taste Category<br>(Tier 1) !! Primary Tastes<br>(Tier 2) !! Secondary Tastes<br>(Tier 3) !! Vintage Appears !! Vintage Disappears !! Notes
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* CARMELIZATION ******* -->  
 
<!-- ******* CARMELIZATION ******* -->  
−
|rowspan="4"| Carmelization
+
|rowspan="6"| Carmelization
−
|rowspan="4"| Carmelization  
+
|rowspan="6"| Carmelization  
−
| Butter  ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Butter  ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Molasses ||align="right"| 1 ||
+
| Butterscotch ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Chocolate ||align="right"| 2 ||  
+
| Honey ||align="right"| 13 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Soy Sauce ||align="right"|  2 ||  
+
| Molasses ||align="right"| 1 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Chocolate ||align="right"|  2 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Soy Sauce ||align="right"|  2 || || {{6ok}}
  
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* CHEMICALS ******* -->  
 
<!-- ******* CHEMICALS ******* -->  
−
|rowspan="15"|Chemicals  
+
|rowspan="22"|Chemicals  
−
|rowspan="2"| Odd Chemicals  
+
|rowspan="4"| Odd Chemicals  
−
| Fish ||align="right"| 4 ||
+
| Fish ||align="right"| 4 ||9 || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Soap ||align="right"| 7 ||
+
| Soap ||align="right"| 7 || 12 || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="1"| Paper
+
| Sorbate ||align="right"| 5 || || {{6ok}}
−
| Filter Pads ||align="right"| 7 ||
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="3"| Petroleum
+
| Fusel Alcohol ||align="right"| 9-11 || || {{6ok}}
−
| Tar ||align="right"| 1 || See (3) below
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Kerosene ||align="right"| 8 ||
+
|rowspan="2"| Paper
 +
| Filter Pads ||align="right"| 7 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Diesel ||align="right"| 9 or 10 ||
+
| Wet Cardboard ||align="right"| ? || ||
 +
|-
 +
|rowspan="4"| Petroleum
 +
| Tar ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}} 
 +
|-
 +
| Kerosene ||align="right"| 8 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Diesel ||align="right"| 9 || ||{{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Plastic ||align="right"| 9 || ||{{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
|rowspan="4"| Pungency  
 
|rowspan="4"| Pungency  
−
| Ethanol ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Ethanol ||align="right"| 0 || ||{{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Sharp Sulfur ||align="right"| 1-3 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Acetic Acid ||align="right"| 3 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Sharp Sulfur ||align="right"| 1 (or 3?) || See (5) below.
+
| Ethyl Acetate ||align="right"| 5 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Acetic Acid ||align="right"| 3 || See (1) below.
+
|rowspan="8"|Sulfur
 +
| Wet Wool ||align="right"| 4 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Ethyl Acetate ||align="right"| 5 ||
+
| Burnt Matches ||align="right"| 6 || ||  
 
|-
 
|-
−
| rowspan="5"|Sulfur
+
| Skunk ||align="right"| 6 || || {{6ok}}
−
| Wet Wool ||align="right"| 4 || See (2) below
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Burnt Matches ||align="right"| 6 ||
+
| Cabbage ||align="right"| 7 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Skunk ||align="right"| 6 ||
+
| Hydrogen Sulfide ||align="right"| 8 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Cabbage ||align="right"| 7 ||
+
| Mercaptan || align="right"| 4 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Hydrogen Sulfide ||align="right"| 8 ||
+
| Garlic|| align="right"| 3 || || {{6ok}}
−
 
+
|-
 +
| Rubber || align="right"| 8+ || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* EARTHYNESS ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* EARTHYNESS ******* -->
−
|rowspan="3"| Earthyness  
+
|rowspan="4"| Earthyness  
 
|rowspan="2"| Earthyness  
 
|rowspan="2"| Earthyness  
−
| Mushrooms ||align="right"| 1 ||  
+
| Mushrooms ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Dust ||align="right"| 4 ||
+
| Dust ||align="right"| 3 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-  
 
|-  
−
|rowspan="1"| Moldyness  
+
|rowspan="2"| Moldyness  
−
| Mildew ||align="right"| 14 ||
+
| Mildew ||align="right"| 14 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
 
+
| Moldy Cork ||align="right"| ? || ||
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* FLORAL NOTES ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* FLORAL NOTES ******* -->
−
|rowspan="4"| Floral Notes  
+
|rowspan="5"| Floral Notes  
−
|rowspan="4"| Floral Notes  
+
|rowspan="5"| Floral Notes  
−
| Orange Blossoms ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Orange Blossoms ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Linalool ||align="right"| 1 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Roses ||align="right"| 1 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Linalool ||align="right"| 1 ||
+
| Geraniums || align="right"| 3 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Roses ||align="right"| 1 ||
+
| Violet ||align="right"| ? || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Geraniums || align="right"| 3 || See (4) below
 
−
 
 
|-  
 
|-  
 
<!-- ******* FRUIT ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* FRUIT ******* -->
−
|rowspan="11"| Fruit  
+
|rowspan="19"| Fruit  
−
|rowspan="2"| Berries  
+
|rowspan="2"| Citrus Notes
−
| Raspberry ||align="right"| 0 ||  
+
| Grapefruit ||align="right"| 0-1 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Lemon ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
|rowspan="4"| Berries  
 +
| Raspberry ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-  
 
|-  
−
| Cassis ||align="right"| 6 || See (2) below
+
| Strawberry ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="2"| Dried Fruit
+
| Cassis ||align="right"| 6 || || {{6ok}}
−
| Raisin ||align="right"| 5 ||
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Strawberry Jam ||align="right"| 6 ||
+
| Blackberry ||align="right"| ? || ||  
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="1"| Odd Fruit  
+
|rowspan="4"| Dried Fruit
−
| Artificial Fruit ||align="right"| 7 ||
+
| Raisin ||align="right"| 5 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Strawberry Jam ||align="right"| 6 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Prune ||align="right"| ? || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Fig ||align="right"| 12 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
|rowspan="2"| Odd Fruit  
 +
| Artificial Fruit ||align="right"| 7 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Methyl Anthranilate ||align="right"| 7 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
|rowspan="4"| Tree Fruit  
 
|rowspan="4"| Tree Fruit  
−
| Cherry ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Cherry ||align="right"| 0 || ||{{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Peach ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Apricot ||align="right"|  1 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Peach ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Apple ||align="right"| 3 || ||{{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Apricot ||align="right"| 1 ||
+
|rowspan="3"| Tropical Fruit
 +
| Banana ||align="right"| 0 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Apple ||align="right"| 3 ||
+
| Pineapple ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="2"| Tropical Fruit
+
| Melon ||align="right"| ? ||  ||
−
| Banana ||align="right"| 0 ||
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Pineapple ||align="right"| 1 ||
 
  
 
|-  
 
|-  
 
<!-- ******* MICROBIOLOGICAL SMELLS ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* MICROBIOLOGICAL SMELLS ******* -->
−
|rowspan="5" |Microbiological Smells  
+
|rowspan="7" |Microbiological Smells  
 
|rowspan="2"| Animal Smells  
 
|rowspan="2"| Animal Smells  
−
| Horsey Smells ||align="right"| 4 ||
+
| Horsey Smells ||align="right"| 4 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Mousey Smells ||align="right"| 7 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
|rowspan="3"| Lactic Acid
 +
| Saurkraut ||align="right"| 4 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Buteric Acid ||align="right"| 0-1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Mousey Smells ||align="right"| 7 ||
+
| Sweat ||align="right"| ? || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="1"| Lactic Acid
+
|rowspan="2"| Yeast
−
| Saurkraut ||align="right"| 4 || Tier 2 confirmed
+
| Leesy ||align="right"| 2 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="1"| Yeast  
+
| Flor Yeast ||align="right"| ? || ||
−
| Leesy ||align="right"| 2 ||
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="1"| Buteric Acid
 
−
| ? ||align="right"| 0 or 1 || Unsure if 2nd or 3rd Tier
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|-
 
|-
Line 131: Line 172:
 
|rowspan="3"| Nuttiness
 
|rowspan="3"| Nuttiness
 
|rowspan="3"| Nuttiness  
 
|rowspan="3"| Nuttiness  
−
| Almond ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Almond ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Hazelnut ||align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Hazelnut ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Walnut ||align="right"| 4 || On Flavor Listing page so added here
+
| Walnut ||align="right"| 4 || || {{6ok}} 
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* OXIDATION ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* OXIDATION ******* -->
 
|rowspan="1"| Oxidation
 
|rowspan="1"| Oxidation
 
|rowspan="1"| Oxidation
 
|rowspan="1"| Oxidation
−
| Acetaldehyde ||align="right"| 9  ||  
+
| Acetaldehyde ||align="right"| 9  || || {{6ok}} 
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* PUNGENCY ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* PUNGENCY ******* -->
 
|rowspan="2"| Pungency  
 
|rowspan="2"| Pungency  
 
|rowspan="1"| Coolness  
 
|rowspan="1"| Coolness  
−
| Menthol ||align="right"| 0  ||  
+
| Menthol ||align="right"| 0  || ||
 
|-
 
|-
 
|rowspan="1"| Heat  
 
|rowspan="1"| Heat  
−
| Hot Alcohol || align="right"| 0 ||
+
| Hot Alcohol || align="right"| 0 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* SPICYNESS ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* SPICYNESS ******* -->
−
|rowspan="2"| Spicyness  
+
|rowspan="3"| Spicyness  
−
|rowspan="2"| Spicyness  
+
|rowspan="3"| Spicyness  
−
| Unknown || align="right"| 7 || See Note 6
+
| Cloves|| align="right"| 7 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Licorice || align="right"| 7 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Licorice || align="right"| ? || See Note 7
+
| Black Pepper || align="right"| 7 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
<!-- ******* VEGETABLES ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* VEGETABLES ******* -->
−
|rowspan="10"| Vegetables  
+
|rowspan="13"| Vegetables  
−
|rowspan="4"| Cooked Notes  
+
|rowspan="5"| Cooked Notes  
−
| Asparagus||align="right"| 1 ||  
+
| Asparagus||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Green Beans ||align="right"| 1 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Green Olives ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Green Olives ||align="right"| 1 ||  
+
| Artichoke||align="right"| 2 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Artichoke||align="right"| 2 ||  
+
| Black Olives ||align="right"| 3 || ||{{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Black Olives ||align="right"| 3 ||
+
|rowspan="5"| Freshness
 +
| Bell Pepper ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="4"| Freshness
+
| Mint ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
−
| Bell Pepper ||align="right"| 0 ||
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Green Beans ||align="right"| 1 ||  
+
| Eucalyptus ||align="right"| 2 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Mint ||align="right"| 1 ||  
+
| Stemmy ||align="right"|0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Eucalyptus ||align="right"| 2 ||
+
| Grass ||align="right"|0 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
|rowspan="2"| Deep dried notes
+
|rowspan="3"| Deep dried notes
−
| Straw ||align="right"| 3 ||
+
| Straw ||align="right"| 3 || ||
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Tobacco  ||align="right"| 6 ||
+
| Tea ||align="right"| 4 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Tobacco  ||align="right"| 6 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-  
 
|-  
  
 
<!-- ******* WOODINESS ******* -->
 
<!-- ******* WOODINESS ******* -->
−
|rowspan="3"| Woodiness  
+
|rowspan="6"| Woodiness  
−
|rowspan="1"| Burned Smells  
+
|rowspan="1"| Phenolic Notes
−
| Smoke ||align="right"| 0 ||  
+
| Vanilla ||align="right"| 1  || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
|rowspan="3"| Burned Smells  
 +
| Smoke ||align="right"| 0 || || {{6ok}}
 +
|-
 +
| Burnt Toast ||align="right"| 2 || ||
 +
|-
 +
| Coffee ||align="right"| 2 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
|rowspan="2"| Resin
 
|rowspan="2"| Resin
−
| Cedar ||align="right"| 1 ||
+
| Cedar ||align="right"| 1 || || {{6ok}}
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Oak ||align="right"| 1 ||  
+
| Oak ||align="right"| 1 || ||  
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
=== Notes ===
 
=== Notes ===
−
# Acetic Acid was seen on an 8.7k glass, but it could be a Primary rather than Secondary taste.  Only Chemicals were on the lower glasses. Edit: got Pungency as the 2nd flavor on a different Acetic Acid yard with a 4573 quality glass.
+
#Please put any notes about wine relevant to T6 here.  Also check the related links at the bottom of the page for information from T3-T5
−
##I also saw only chemicals (5773 glass) and acetic acid(6455 and 9044 glasses), but its possible acetic acid is the middle flavour and we're missing the top - Spicy
 
−
## Updated: After further tasting I must have had an error in my tasting notes.  It is clear now that sharp sulfur is a tier 3 as shown.  This also matches the T3 chart so it makes more sense. (From my tests, I believe Sharp Sulfur is the middle flavor, but it could be Chemicals->Acetic Acid->Sharp Sulfur) - Omari
 
−
# The tier 2 flavors didn't show up on these on my table, so pulled them from the T3 wiki-Tedra
 
−
# Tar is the top level flavour I saw on a 9k glass, petroleum is the middle flavour that I saw on 5.5k glass - Spicy
 
−
# Geraniums seen in wine at 3 vints old, but not tested at 2 vints - Spicy Can confirm 3-Tedra
 
−
# This was seen in T3 as vintage 1, can anyone confirm this is true for T4?  I have a pungency flavour detected at vintage 3 and suspect this might be it. - Linalia
 
−
# I now have two vineyards that have a "Spicyness" flavor, but do not resolve to the Tier 3 flavor. I am growing more grapes with a higher quality and covering more of the area to track down the exact flavor - Telanoc
 
−
# After drinking the same Spicyness wine a few times on different glasses I found Licorice on a 9204 quality glass, the wine is 28 vintages old though - EvilSnowman
 
  
 
== Reading The Flavor Chart ==
 
== Reading The Flavor Chart ==
Line 220: Line 268:
  
 
== Related Pages ==
 
== Related Pages ==
−
* [[Wine/Flavors By Vintage|Wine Flavors By Vintage]]
+
* [[Wine/Flavors/Wine_Flavors_By_Player|Wine Flavors by Player]]
−
* [[User:Darien/Flavor-Chart | Flavor Listing]] - Listing of flavors people currently have. Looking for certain flavors to finish up a wine book and can't find them? Look no further!! Also, feel free to add your flavors today!
 
−
* [[Wine/Flavors/T3|T3 Flavors]] - archived to reduce confusion/page length
 

Latest revision as of 15:54, 5 July 2015

< Wine

Tale 6 Flavors

Taste Category
(Tier 1)		 Primary Tastes
(Tier 2)		 Secondary Tastes
(Tier 3)		 Vintage Appears Vintage Disappears Notes
Carmelization Carmelization Butter 0 T6ok small.gif
Butterscotch 1 T6ok small.gif
Honey 13 T6ok small.gif
Molasses 1
Chocolate 2 T6ok small.gif
Soy Sauce 2 T6ok small.gif
Chemicals Odd Chemicals Fish 4 9 T6ok small.gif
Soap 7 12 T6ok small.gif
Sorbate 5 T6ok small.gif
Fusel Alcohol 9-11 T6ok small.gif
Paper Filter Pads 7 T6ok small.gif
Wet Cardboard ?
Petroleum Tar 1 T6ok small.gif
Kerosene 8
Diesel 9 T6ok small.gif
Plastic 9 T6ok small.gif
Pungency Ethanol 0 T6ok small.gif
Sharp Sulfur 1-3
Acetic Acid 3
Ethyl Acetate 5
Sulfur Wet Wool 4 T6ok small.gif
Burnt Matches 6
Skunk 6 T6ok small.gif
Cabbage 7
Hydrogen Sulfide 8
Mercaptan 4 T6ok small.gif
Garlic 3 T6ok small.gif
Rubber 8+ T6ok small.gif
Earthyness Earthyness Mushrooms 1 T6ok small.gif
Dust 3 T6ok small.gif
Moldyness Mildew 14 T6ok small.gif
Moldy Cork ?
Floral Notes Floral Notes Orange Blossoms 0 T6ok small.gif
Linalool 1
Roses 1
Geraniums 3 T6ok small.gif
Violet ?
Fruit Citrus Notes Grapefruit 0-1 T6ok small.gif
Lemon 0 T6ok small.gif
Berries Raspberry 0 T6ok small.gif
Strawberry 1 T6ok small.gif
Cassis 6 T6ok small.gif
Blackberry ?
Dried Fruit Raisin 5 T6ok small.gif
Strawberry Jam 6
Prune ?
Fig 12 T6ok small.gif
Odd Fruit Artificial Fruit 7 T6ok small.gif
Methyl Anthranilate 7 T6ok small.gif
Tree Fruit Cherry 0 T6ok small.gif
Peach 0 T6ok small.gif
Apricot 1
Apple 3 T6ok small.gif
Tropical Fruit Banana 0
Pineapple 1 T6ok small.gif
Melon ?
Microbiological Smells Animal Smells Horsey Smells 4
Mousey Smells 7 T6ok small.gif
Lactic Acid Saurkraut 4 T6ok small.gif
Buteric Acid 0-1 T6ok small.gif
Sweat ?
Yeast Leesy 2 T6ok small.gif
Flor Yeast ?
Nuttiness Nuttiness Almond 0 T6ok small.gif
Hazelnut 0 T6ok small.gif
Walnut 4 T6ok small.gif
Oxidation Oxidation Acetaldehyde 9 T6ok small.gif
Pungency Coolness Menthol 0
Heat Hot Alcohol 0
Spicyness Spicyness Cloves 7
Licorice 7 T6ok small.gif
Black Pepper 7 T6ok small.gif
Vegetables Cooked Notes Asparagus 1 T6ok small.gif
Green Beans 1
Green Olives 1 T6ok small.gif
Artichoke 2 T6ok small.gif
Black Olives 3 T6ok small.gif
Freshness Bell Pepper 0 T6ok small.gif
Mint 1 T6ok small.gif
Eucalyptus 2 T6ok small.gif
Stemmy 0 T6ok small.gif
Grass 0 T6ok small.gif
Deep dried notes Straw 3
Tea 4 T6ok small.gif
Tobacco 6 T6ok small.gif
Woodiness Phenolic Notes Vanilla 1 T6ok small.gif
Burned Smells Smoke 0 T6ok small.gif
Burnt Toast 2
Coffee 2 T6ok small.gif
Resin Cedar 1 T6ok small.gif
Oak 1

Notes

  1. Please put any notes about wine relevant to T6 here. Also check the related links at the bottom of the page for information from T3-T5

Reading The Flavor Chart

Vintage indicates how old the wine was when the flavor first appeared in the wine.

  • If a wine contains flavors that have not developed at the wine's current vintage age, those flavors will not be detectable when the wine is tasted.
  • If no flavors are detectable, a wine will report as Thin and not give tasting checks for quality.
  • As the wine ages and flavors come in, the wine will stop being Thin.

Note: It is the age on the Secondary Taste that brings the flavor in, not the Taste Category or Primary Taste.

For example:

  • Bell Pepper (0) and Green Beans (1) are both Vegetable/Freshness flavors.
  • If a wine only has the Green Beans flavor in it, it will report as Thin until it is 1 vintage old (not giving the Vegetable or Freshness flavors).
  • Bell Pepper, on the other hand, will show Vegetable, Freshness, and Bell Pepper flavors on different glasses starting at 0 vintages old.

Related Pages

Retrieved from "http://www.atitd.org/wiki/t6w/index.php?title=Wine/Flavors&oldid=278702"