User:Tungsten/Cooking

Log

Entry #1 - 23 December, 2009

I have started my cooking research yesterday. I did not find a clear theory on the properties of ingredients or how they affect the finished meal, all I have found was a table on the Recipes page. I have added a recipe or two, but I had a feeling that it was going nowhere.

I have seen Dachannien's Cooking Database of course, but it did not make too much sense to me at first sight. A serious amount of work, time and energy must have been put into it, and I really respect that, however, I was expecting some clear rules, a coherent system, or at least discussions on theories how things could work in Cooking. I have found none. This coordinate system I was seeing everywhere just confused me, and I have never seen a clear explanation on where those coordinates come from. Looking at Mortality's Cooking 1 Recipes, especially at the Number Variations, I was getting really confused, and started to think that the whole concept we have on cooking so far needs an extensive review.

So I decided to disregard everything I have seen so far, and start Cooking research from scratch.

As a first step, I started accumulating some raw data in the table below. What I have seen so far makes me believe that thinking in Base/Additive pairings in mostly incorrect. Yes, there are bases and additives, and their definitions also seems to be correct insofar that an ingredient with the highest amount is a base, the rest are additives. It also seems to be true that at cooking level 1 you can only use 1 base in a dish. However, it seems that stat bonuses have nothing to do with bases/additives, they only depend on the ratio of ingredients used. Then again, I may be completely wrong, especially since my Cooking skill is only 1 at the moment, so just about anything may turn out at higher levels.

For now, I am testing the qualities of the ingredients I have in abundance. Later on, I will add more and more ingredients as they become available in greater quantities, but for now I have to use what I have. I did not use herbs or mushrooms of any kind until now, and I expect some surprises once I start using them.

Anyway, looking at the data collected so far, I have come to believe that every ingredient has some sort of effect on stats, which is multiplied by the ratio of that given ingredient to all other ingredients in the pot. So, for example, Cabbage often gives 1 bonus point in Dexterity and Condition, unless it is offset by the other ingredient(s). It is probably more complex than that, but I lack the data to think any further yet. Duration also seems to be affected by pairings, or 'compatibility' of ingredients. It most probably depends on how well the ingredients 'match', but the function must be more complex, since duration also depends on ratio. There seems to be an optimal ratio for pairs of ingredients. This could have something to do with those mysterious coordinates I have seen on other Cooking related pages, but could not really make heads or tails of.

Entry #2 - 24 December, 2009

I am adding a new ingredient to the list: Perch Fish. It may have different properties due to being Fish, though I do not expect a real surprise here, unlike with Herbs. Anyway, my supplies are very limited, so I will only try the 1:6 ratio. It probably does not make any sense to test the 6:1 ratio like I did before, as the theory on good/bad pairings is most probably correct. Still, since I had the igredients I used so far in abundance, it did not really hurt to try different ratios even if the pairing seemed to be a bad one. One never knows.

Entry #3 - 24 December, 2009

I am planning an experiment to test my theory on ratio and potency. I have already seen recipes that give higher stat bonuses, specifically Onions seem to be very potent. The potency, that is, the stat bonuses cannot depend on the amount of the ingredients used, since cooking a meal with more ingredients increases only the number of available servings but not the potency. So potency can only depend on the ratio of the ingredient to all other ingredients, it would not make sense any other way.

So far, in all the meals I had prepared, the ratio of the dominant ingredient never exceeded 6:1, but now I will try increasing the amount of the dominant ingredient against the additive, which will remain 1. I expect to see a slight shift in potency, approaching something that can be thought of as the 'pure form' of the dominant ingredient. Since there is no such thing as a completely neutral ingredient (perhaps water would be one, but unfortunately in cannot be used as an ingredient), there is no way of experiencing an ingredient in its pure form. Still, it could be isolated if the ratio is really big. A ratio of 100:1 would probably be close enough. Just to be absolutely sure, I will also try to increase the amount of the additive, just once, to prove that potency indeed only depends on the ratio.

I am also thinking that perhaps there could be something like a critical ratio for an ingredient, or at least some ingredients, and its properties might change upon exceeding it. If I think along the lines of 'taste' and 'seasonings'... For example, in real life, you can cook any amount of meat or vegetables, and use a little salt for taste. If you used too little salt, you would not even notice it. The dish would taste bland, but would still be palatable. Adding a little more salt would improve the experience, up to an optimal ratio, and adding too much would radically worsen it, up to a critical ratio. Exceeding the latter would result in the food becoming inedible. I have already seen the duration change with the ratio, suggesting there is an optimal ratio for ingredient pairs, so it is entirely possible that there is an optimal or ciritcal ratio for bonuses, too. Perhaps these only apply to spices, seasonings (that is: Herbs), though. I will be sure to test this hypothesis with salt as soon as I am able to make some.

Entry #4 - 24 December, 2009

I just found something interesting. Before starting the experiment mentioned in the previous entry, I wanted to finish what I have started and fill in the missing details in the current table. So far I was only looking for valid combinations, testing only ratios 1:6 and 6:1. Cabbage + Camel Meat was the only exception, I tested the full line of ratios with them, but there was nothing special about it. At both ends of the line I saw the same Dex and Con bonuses, only the duration seemed to be affected, having a peak value of 10 minutes at the ratio of 3:4. This resembled a 'sweet spot' of sorts, where the duration reaches its maximum. With all the other combinations, however, there was a significant difference between ratios of 1:6 and 6:1. I figured this had to do with the 'purity' of the meal. So at a ratio of 1:6 I see almost exclusively the properties of the second ingredient, almost as if it was in 'pure form', and at a ratio of 6:1, I see the almost 'native', or almost 'pure' properties of the first. I already had some intermediate data about Cabbage + Onions as well, namely 1:6, 4:3 and 6:1. Without seeing 5:2 in particular, this seemed to be in order: Cabbages give some bonus to Dex and Con, and Onions give a stronger bonus to Speed, at the same time giving a strong penalty to Dex and Con. And because Onions are apparently more potent than Cabbages, I do not see a positive Dex or Con stat at all, but at the ratio where Onions far outweight Cabbages, there is the full penalty; at nearly the middle, at 4:3, Cabbages can compensate for some of that; and finally, at 6:1, Cabbages completely neutralize the penalties, however, the Speed bonus of the Onions is still there, though a little more mildly. The duration was also the highest at the 4:3 ratio, so I thought of it as the 'point in the middle'.

But I was cooking meals from the same ingredients and the ratios in between 1:6 and 6:1, testing every possibility, I have discovered an odd phenomenon, which is typically located at the 'sweet spot' for duration, that is, where duration reaches its maximum. The combination that showed such peculiar behaviour was Cabbage Juice + Leeks. 1:6 gives Str, Dex, Spd. 6:1 gives Str and Dex only. So I expected to see no change in Str and Dex, but I expected Spd to slowly diminish and completely disappear somewhere near the middle of the line. Yet, at the ratio of 3:4, which just happens to be the duration 'sweet spot', it was Str that mysteriously disappeared, only to reappear at the next step, where Spd disappeared just as I expected it would. With Cabbage and Onions, the stat bonuses seemed to change in a linear fashion, but they were milder at the sweet spot, where duration was the highest. Cabbage Juice + Carrot Juice seems to be the most interesting of all so far. The Str and Dex bonus seems to be the 'native' bonus of Cabbage Juice, and Carrot Juice apparently give Foc and Per, at the same time giving a penalty to Str and Dex -- exactly what the other ingredient improves. Carrot Juice seems to be more potent, as its bonuses ara there all along the line, and the Str and Dex bonus does not appear even when Cabbage Juice outweights Carrot Juice 6:1. However, at the 'sweet spot', the Str and Dex bonuses of Cabbage Juice suddenly appear!

So it seems that at the highest duration, the potency is decreased. But is it possible that penalties are decreased more than bonuses? I will first fill the table with data of the ratios still missing, then I will try to isolate the 'pure form' of one or two ingredients, and after that, I plan to increase the resolution around the 'sweet spots' and see if I can get any closer to them, possibly increasing the bonus.

Entry #5 - 30 December, 2009

I am getting confused. This just does not make sense at all! I tried to isolate the 'pure form' of an ingredient, but there seems to be no such thing.

Recipe Data

• I do not measure time with a stopwatch. Duration is based on the ingame timestamp, so it is in teppyminutes. I eat the food, get the message: "You eat some <food>.", take note of the affected stats, and keep watching the stats. When they return to normal, I quickly check the timestamp on the above message, and record it.

• Row color:
  • red: the recipe did not result in anything edible
  • white: planned, not tried yet

2 Ingredients
Ingredient A Ingredient B Str Dex End Spd Con Foc Per Duration 1 Cabbage 6 Cabbage Juice 6 Cabbage 1 Cabbage Juice 1 Cabbage 6 Camel Meat 1 1 9 2 Cabbage 5 Camel Meat 1 1 9 3 Cabbage 4 Camel Meat 1 1 10 4 Cabbage 3 Camel Meat 1 1 9 5 Cabbage 2 Camel Meat 1 1 9 6 Cabbage 1 Camel Meat 1 1 9 1 Cabbage 9 Carrots 1 1 12 1 Cabbage 6 Carrots 1 1 13 2 Cabbage 5 Carrots 1 1 1 1 13 3 Cabbage 4 Carrots 1 1 1 1 13 4 Cabbage 3 Carrots 1 1 1 13 5 Cabbage 2 Carrots 1 1 1 13 6 Cabbage 1 Carrots 1 1 1 13 9 Cabbage 1 Carrots 1 1 1 12 49 Cabbage 1 Carrots 1 1 1 12 129 Cabbage 1 Carrots 1 1 1 12 1 Cabbage 6 Carrot Juice 6 Cabbage 1 Carrot Juice 1 Cabbage 6 Coconut Meat 6 Cabbage 1 Coconut Meat 1 Cabbage 6 Garlic 6 Cabbage 1 Garlic 1 Cabbage 6 Grilled Cabbage 1 1 1 1 2 Cabbage 5 Grilled Cabbage 1 1 1 1 3 Cabbage 4 Grilled Cabbage 1 1 1 2 4 Cabbage 3 Grilled Cabbage 1 1 1 2 5 Cabbage 2 Grilled Cabbage 1 1 1 2 6 Cabbage 1 Grilled Cabbage 1 1 1 1 1 Cabbage 6 Grilled Carrots 1 1 3 2 Cabbage 5 Grilled Carrots 1 1 4 3 Cabbage 4 Grilled Carrots 1 4 4 Cabbage 3 Grilled Carrots 1 1 1 5 5 Cabbage 2 Grilled Carrots 1 1 4 6 Cabbage 1 Grilled Carrots 1 1 3 1 Cabbage 6 Grilled Garlic 1 1 1 2 2 Cabbage 5 Grilled Garlic 1 1 1 2 3 Cabbage 4 Grilled Garlic 1 1 1 2 4 Cabbage 3 Grilled Garlic 1 1 3 5 Cabbage 2 Grilled Garlic 1 1 2 6 Cabbage 1 Grilled Garlic 1 1 1 2 6 Cabbage 1 Grilled Onions 6 Cabbage 1 Grilled Peppers 1 Cabbage 6 Honey 1 1 7 2 Cabbage 5 Honey 1 1 8 3 Cabbage 4 Honey 1 1 1 1 8 4 Cabbage 3 Honey 1 1 1 1 7 5 Cabbage 2 Honey 1 1 1 1 7 6 Cabbage 1 Honey 1 1 7 1 Cabbage 6 Leeks 6 Cabbage 1 Leeks 1 Cabbage 6 Oil 6 Cabbage 1 Oil 1 Cabbage 6 Onions -2 3 -2 15 2 Cabbage 5 Onions -2 3 -2 15 3 Cabbage 4 Onions -2 3 -2 15 4 Cabbage 3 Onions -1 2 -1 19 5 Cabbage 2 Onions -2 3 -2 18 6 Cabbage 1 Onions 2 16 6 Cabbage 1 Perch Fish 1 Cabbage 6 Watermelons 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Camel Meat 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Camel Meat 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Carrots 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Carrots 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Carrot Juice -1 -1 1 1 7 2 Cabbage Juice 5 Carrot Juice -1 -1 1 1 7 3 Cabbage Juice 4 Carrot Juice -1 -1 1 1 7 4 Cabbage Juice 3 Carrot Juice 1 1 1 1 9 5 Cabbage Juice 2 Carrot Juice 1 1 8 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Carrot Juice 1 1 7 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 10 2 Cabbage Juice 5 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 10 3 Cabbage Juice 4 Coconut Meat 1 1 10 4 Cabbage Juice 3 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 1 10 5 Cabbage Juice 2 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 1 10 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 1 10 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Garlic 1 1 2 Cabbage Juice 5 Garlic 1 1 1 3 Cabbage Juice 4 Garlic 1 1 1 4 Cabbage Juice 3 Garlic 1 1 2 5 Cabbage Juice 2 Garlic 1 1 1 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Garlic 1 1 1 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Grilled Cabbage 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Grilled Carrots 0 3 Cabbage Juice 4 Grilled Carrots 0 4 Cabbage Juice 3 Grilled Carrots 0 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Grilled Carrots 0 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Grilled Garlic 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Grilled Onions -1 1 -1 1 7 5 Cabbage Juice 2 Grilled Onions 1 -1 1 9 4 Cabbage Juice 3 Grilled Onions 1 1 10 3 Cabbage Juice 4 Grilled Onions -1 1 -1 1 7 2 Cabbage Juice 5 Grilled Onions -1 2 -1 1 7 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Grilled Onions -1 2 -1 1 7 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Grilled Peppers 1 1 1 3 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Honey 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Honey 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Leeks 1 1 1 15 2 Cabbage Juice 5 Leeks 1 1 1 15 3 Cabbage Juice 4 Leeks 1 1 16 4 Cabbage Juice 3 Leeks 1 1 15 5 Cabbage Juice 2 Leeks 1 1 15 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Leeks 1 1 15 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Oil 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Oil 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Onions 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Onions 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Perch Fish 1 1 7 6 Cabbage Juice 1 Perch Fish 1 1 8 1 Cabbage Juice 6 Watermelons 1 Camel Meat 6 Carrots 1 1 8 2 Camel Meat 5 Carrots 1 1 8 3 Camel Meat 4 Carrots 1 1 1 1 8 4 Camel Meat 3 Carrots 1 1 9 5 Camel Meat 2 Carrots 1 1 1 1 8 6 Camel Meat 1 Carrots 1 1 1 1 8 1 Camel Meat 6 Carrot Juice 6 Camel Meat 1 Carrot Juice 1 Camel Meat 6 Coconut Meat 6 Camel Meat 1 Coconut Meat 6 Camel Meat 1 Grilled Peppers 1 Camel Meat 6 Honey 1 1 14 2 Camel Meat 5 Honey 1 1 14 3 Camel Meat 4 Honey 1 1 14 4 Camel Meat 3 Honey 1 1 1 15 5 Camel Meat 2 Honey 1 1 1 15 6 Camel Meat 1 Honey 1 1 1 14 1 Camel Meat 6 Leeks 6 Camel Meat 1 Leeks 1 Camel Meat 6 Oil 6 Camel Meat 1 Oil 1 Camel Meat 6 Onions -2 2 -2 8 2 Camel Meat 5 Onions -2 2 -2 8 3 Camel Meat 4 Onions -1 2 -1 8 4 Camel Meat 3 Onions 1 1 13 5 Camel Meat 2 Onions 1 11 6 Camel Meat 1 Onions -1 2 -1 9 6 Camel Meat 1 Perch Fish 1 Camel Meat 6 Watermelons 1 Carrots 6 Carrot Juice 6 Carrots 1 Carrot Juice 1 Carrots 6 Coconut Meat 6 Carrots 1 Coconut Meat 1 Carrots 6 Garlic 6 Carrots 1 Garlic 1 Carrots 6 Honey 1 1 7 2 Carrots 5 Honey 1 1 1 7 3 Carrots 4 Honey 1 1 8 4 Carrots 3 Honey 1 1 7 5 Carrots 2 Honey 1 1 7 6 Carrots 1 Honey 1 1 7 1 Carrots 6 Leeks 6 Carrots 1 Leeks 1 Carrots 6 Oil 6 Carrots 1 Oil 1 Carrots 6 Onions -2 2 -2 11 2 Carrots 5 Onions 1 -2 2 -2 1 11 3 Carrots 4 Onions 1 -2 2 -2 1 11 4 Carrots 3 Onions 1 -2 2 -2 1 15 5 Carrots 2 Onions 1 1 1 14 6 Carrots 1 Onions 1 1 12 6 Carrots 1 Perch Fish 1 Carrots 6 Watermelons 1 Carrot Juice 6 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 1 2 Carrot Juice 5 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 1 3 Carrot Juice 4 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 4 Carrot Juice 3 Coconut Meat 1 1 0 5 Carrot Juice 2 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 0 6 Carrot Juice 1 Coconut Meat 1 1 1 0 1 Carrot Juice 6 Garlic 6 Carrot Juice 1 Garlic 1 Carrot Juice 6 Honey 6 Carrot Juice 1 Honey 1 Carrot Juice 6 Leeks 1 1 1 9 2 Carrot Juice 5 Leeks -1 -1 1 1 1 10 3 Carrot Juice 4 Leeks 1 1 1 11 4 Carrot Juice 3 Leeks -1 -1 1 1 1 8 5 Carrot Juice 2 Leeks -1 -1 1 1 8 6 Carrot Juice 1 Leeks -1 -1 1 1 8 1 Carrot Juice 6 Oil 6 Carrot Juice 1 Oil 1 Carrot Juice 6 Onions 6 Carrot Juice 1 Onions 1 Carrot Juice 6 Perch Fish 1 1 0 2 Carrot Juice 5 Perch Fish 1 1 3 Carrot Juice 4 Perch Fish 1 1 4 Carrot Juice 3 Perch Fish 1 1 5 Carrot Juice 2 Perch Fish 1 1 6 Carrot Juice 1 Perch Fish 1 1 1 1 0 1 Carrot Juice 6 Watermelons 2 -2 -2 2 1 2 2 Carrot Juice 5 Watermelons 2 -2 -2 2 1 3 3 Carrot Juice 4 Watermelons 2 -2 -2 2 1 4 4 Carrot Juice 3 Watermelons 1 -1 -1 2 1 24 5 Carrot Juice 2 Watermelons 1 1 17 6 Carrot Juice 1 Watermelons 1 1 9 1 Coconut Meat 6 Garlic 1 1 4 2 Coconut Meat 5 Garlic 1 1 4 3 Coconut Meat 4 Garlic 1 4 4 Coconut Meat 3 Garlic 1 1 1 5 5 Coconut Meat 2 Garlic 1 1 5 6 Coconut Meat 1 Garlic 1 1 4 1 Coconut Meat 6 Honey 6 Coconut Meat 1 Honey 1 Coconut Meat 6 Leeks 1 1 1 1 8 2 Coconut Meat 5 Leeks 1 1 1 1 8 3 Coconut Meat 4 Leeks 1 1 1 1 9 4 Coconut Meat 3 Leeks 1 1 1 8 5 Coconut Meat 2 Leeks 1 1 9 6 Coconut Meat 1 Leeks 1 1 8 1 Coconut Meat 6 Oil 6 Coconut Meat 1 Oil 1 Coconut Meat 6 Onions 6 Coconut Meat 1 Onions 1 Coconut Meat 6 Perch Fish -1 1 1 -1 9 2 Coconut Meat 5 Perch Fish 1 1 3 Coconut Meat 4 Perch Fish 1 1 4 Coconut Meat 3 Perch Fish 1 1 5 Coconut Meat 2 Perch Fish 1 1 6 Coconut Meat 1 Perch Fish 1 1 9 1 Coconut Meat 6 Watermelons 1 Garlic 6 Honey 6 Garlic 1 Honey 1 Garlic 6 Leeks 6 Garlic 1 Leeks 1 Garlic 6 Oil 1 1 12 2 Garlic 5 Oil 1 1 13 3 Garlic 4 Oil 1 14 4 Garlic 3 Oil 1 -1 12 5 Garlic 2 Oil 1 -1 -1 12 6 Garlic 1 Oil 1 -1 -1 12 1 Garlic 6 Onions 6 Garlic 1 Onions 6 Garlic 1 Perch Fish 1 Garlic 6 Watermelons 1 Grilled Cabbage 6 Watermelons 1 Grilled Carrots 6 Watermelons 1 1 1 2 Grilled Carrots 5 Watermelons 1 1 1 3 Grilled Carrots 4 Watermelons 1 1 1 4 Grilled Carrots 3 Watermelons 1 22 5 Grilled Carrots 2 Watermelons 1 14 6 Grilled Carrots 1 Watermelons 1 1 7 1 Grilled Garlic 6 Watermelons 3 -3 -3 3 4 2 Grilled Garlic 5 Watermelons 3 -3 -3 3 4 3 Grilled Garlic 4 Watermelons 3 -3 -3 3 5 4 Grilled Garlic 3 Watermelons 2 -1 -1 2 25 5 Grilled Garlic 2 Watermelons 3 -2 -2 3 18 6 Grilled Garlic 1 Watermelons 2 -1 -1 2 10 1 Grilled Onions 6 Watermelons 1 Honey 6 Leeks 6 Honey 1 Leeks 1 Honey 6 Oil 6 Honey 1 Oil 1 Honey 6 Onions -1 2 -1 1 6 2 Honey 5 Onions -1 2 -1 1 6 3 Honey 4 Onions -1 2 -1 1 7 4 Honey 3 Onions -1 2 -1 1 11 5 Honey 2 Onions 1 1 9 6 Honey 1 Onions 1 1 7 6 Honey 1 Perch Fish 1 Honey 6 Watermelons 1 Leeks 6 Oil 6 Leeks 1 Oil 1 Leeks 6 Onions 6 Leeks 1 Onions 1 Leeks 6 Perch Fish 2 Leeks 5 Perch Fish 3 Leeks 4 Perch Fish 4 Leeks 3 Perch Fish 5 Leeks 2 Perch Fish 6 Leeks 1 Perch Fish 1 1 1 7 1 Leeks 6 Watermelons 1 Oil 6 Onions 6 Oil 1 Onions 6 Oil 1 Perch Fish 1 Oil 6 Watermelons 6 Onions 1 Perch Fish 1 Onions 6 Watermelons
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3 Ingredients
Ingredient A Ingredient B Ingredient C Str Dex End Spd Con Foc Per Duration 2 Cabbage 2 Camel Meat 3 Carrots 1 1 1 1 3 2 Cabbage 3 Camel Meat 2 Carrots 1 1 1 3 Cabbage 2 Camel Meat 2 Carrots 1 1 1 3 1 Cabbage 3 Camel Meat 3 Carrots 1 1 12 3 Cabbage 1 Camel Meat 3 Carrots 1 1 9 3 Cabbage 3 Camel Meat 1 Carrots
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4 Ingredients
Ingredient A Ingredient B Ingredient C Ingredient D Str Dex End Spd Con Foc Per Duration
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Ingredients

• Cabbage
• Cabbage Juice
• Camel Meat
• Carrots
• Carrot Juice
• Coconut Meat
• Garlic
• Grilled Cabbage
• Grilled Carrots
• Grilled Garlic
• Grilled Onions
• Honey
• Leeks
• Oil
• Onions
• Perch Fish
• Watermelons